Theos-Talk Archives (December 2002 Message tt00513)

On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:14:24 -0000 "Steve Stubbs <stevestubbs@yahoo.com>"
<stevestubbs@yahoo.com> writes:

> Since you brought up Mor[m]onism, could you commenton this business 
> of Mormons posthumously baptizing Jews. What is this all about and 
> why are the Jews upset about it? For that matter, why would they 
> care? Do they believe that affects the post-mortem fate of their 
> ancestors?

Let's first look at the logic track that Mormons use to get to that
point.

1-Elohim told Adam that if he sinned, he would die. That death was to be
two-fold, a physical death or separation of the body and spirit and also
a spiritual death or separation from diety. 

2-All me sin, so all men die.

3-Jesus came to take the sins of the world upon himself and through his
atonement to overcome death.

4-Jesus atonement grants resurrection to all mandkind (a free gift) and
makes possible exaltation (becoming a god) to those believe and live the
commandments

5-Jesus organized a church and ordained priesthood holders who become His
representitives on earth. 

6- The priesthood was authorized to make covenants between Jesus and
mankind through symbolic rituals such as baptism, the endowment and
sealing. 

7-Only covenants done these authorized representitives are valid in the
eyes of Jesus. To all others he says "I never knew you" 

8-That original church was lost due to the death of the apostles and
general apostasy.

9-the priesthood and church were restored by angels tp Joseph Smith and 
Oliver Cowdery.

10-Thus only Mormon priesthood holders can perform valid baptisms

11-The justice of god demands that an opportunity needs exist for all
those who died without the chance to be baptised by one having authority.

12-To this end, Mormons build temples where priesthood holders baptize
others vicariously for those who are dead. 

13-The spirits of those who are dead may accept or reject this baptism as
they will, but the opportunity has been given them. 

14-The Mormon goal is to perform vicarious baptisms for all who have
lived. For those for whom no records are now discovered , it is believed
that during the Millenium, those records will somehow be manifested.

15-Mormons do this indiscriminately. Not only Jews ahve been vicariously
baptized but also Catholic Popes, Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc.

16-The Jews who have opposed this are not being rational. They don't
understand that from their perspective this is all a bunch of nonsense
and that from the Mormon perspective all that is being done is viewed as
an opportunity which may be rejected and not a done deal

17-The names of all those who have been baptized form the basis of the
vast genealogy files which Mormons offer to the world for research. So by
rejecting this work, Jewish names will no longer be found in those files,
a loss for those Jews who might want to compile their ancestry.

18-It's not clear to me whether the names are just not going to be listed
or if indeed the work will be invalidated. The latter seems somewhat not
likely as Mormons would hold that their obligation is to all mankind as
individuals and not to any group. But I'm not party to that kind of
inside information any longer. 

A little long winded, by neccesary to see the whole picture.

Larry

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