Theos-Talk Archives (December 2002 Message tt00127)

Hi Steve,

Here are a few more comments on K.

1-It seems clear that the turning point for K in his relationship with
the TS was the death of his brother. TS leaders had promised that his
brother had an important role to play in future events in spite of his
severe illness and A Besant summoned K to her side, leaving his brother
on the other side of the world, with promises that all would be well. The
brother died while K was still in route! This totally shattered K's
confidence in the TS heirarchy.

2-On the larger scale, we have the proverbial tail trying to wag the dog.
The NT shows this pattern between Jesus and his disciples who wanted a
political messiah and had to be contantly reminding that "my kingdom is
not of this world" and the "ye have not chosen me, but rather I have
chosen and ordained you." Yet the TS leaders had a clear image of the
role K was to play as their world leader. They started an organization
for him, hand picked those that were to be his apostles, orchestrated the
way meeting went, etc. K rejected all this. He would become a leader of
sorts, but within the paradigm of the pathless land, not in the image
Annie and the Liberal Catholic Church bishops envisoned. 

3-One must concider the evidence that K's teachings di indeed retain a
theosophical flavor, albeit they are of a practical nature rather than
concerned with the intellictual studies most of us pursue. A serious
reading of the work by Aryel Sanat, THE INNER LIFE OF KRISNAMURTI sheds
much light in this. Many feel Mr Sanat goes to far but the underlying
premise seens clear enough.

4-As to K's skills as a tent preacher and his learning skills from TS
people, what of the supposed Kundalini experience. Clearly SOMETHING
happened to K. How one interpretes that is left to the individual to
decide but any serious study of that portion of his life indicates that
something was going on. Once again we have the old paradox. K was dumb,
listless, a poor student, slack jawes. etc. Yet he was a brilliant
charlatan. How does this happen! (I'm compelled to compare to Joseph
Smith, that stupid, listless, n'er do well farmboy who manages to pull of
the biggest religious fraud in American history--oops, my chicken's
crossing the road again) I believe the Kundalini experience, whatever it
was, empowered K somehow. 

5-All that said, I do take issue with much of K's work, largely because
of how it has now interfaced with my persomal life and turned my wife
against me (sorry for getting personal, but my life is in a shambles at
this moment) Also, I don't see much evidence that for all his work, he
truely was able to "transform" many individuals. He certainly touched
many lives, but few have caught his vision. 

Enough said,

Larry

On Sun, 01 Dec 2002 02:55:04 -0000 "Steve Stubbs" <stevestubbs@yahoo.com>
writes:
> Larry and ramadoss:
> 
> You both raise some interesting points. Unless K was what 
> psychologists call a "superkid" it is impossible that he would not 
> have been damaged by Leadbeater, but your comments make it clear he 
> was a more complex character than I had thought. There is no 
> question that he was an outstanding group leader, which is 90% of 
> being a guru. It is apparent to me that he was trained in these 
> skills by Besant et al when she was exploiting him for that "order" 
> of hers. So that part is quite easy to explain. When he was a 
> child 
> Marjoe Gortner was exploited by his parents, who were tent 
> preachers, 
> and he applied those skills to his own tent preacher business with 
> great effect when he got grown. There is an award wining 
> documentary 
> about him called MARJOE which can sometimes be found on eBay. As 
> for 
> the other 10% of being a guru, it has always seemed t me that as a 
> philosopher K was a pretty good tent preacher. Wxcellent platform 
> style has covered up intellectual flimsiness in more than 
> one "guru." So that he would start out as a dull kid and end up a 
> spellbinder is not that hard to explain.
> 
> Having been closely associated with Leadbeater, K would have known 
> better than anyone else that Leadbeater was a liar, a pervert, a 
> child molester amd an impostor. It is impossible that he could have 
> 
> been unaware of those aspects or unaffected by them. So if he 
> tactfully failed to mention that in his "I'm Outta Here" statement 
> that CPULD mean they were not factors in his decision, and again it 
> could mean he just thought it the better part of decorum not to 
> bring 
> it up. So his statement is important evidence, but unfortunately 
> not 
> conclusive.


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