Theos-Talk Archives (November 2002 Message tt00724)

Hi M.

I don't think I mentioned anything about "racism." I was talking about 
freedom. 

In New York, which is a melting pot for every, ethnic, religious, cultural, 
racial, age, financial, occupational, sexual, etc., group imaginable, there 
is (like everyplace else where such disparate groups come into close contact) 
some degree of disagreement, hatred, fear, intolerance, jealousy, anger, 
etc., that is bound to exist between them. However, that sort of thing cuts 
both ways. And, no more blame can be placed on one side than the other. But, 
such overt discriminations are not very evident in such a big city as NY, 
since only a few people out of each group engage in such negative emotions or 
actions. Also, I doubt, if you can limit such discriminations solely to the 
US -- since not all humans everywhere are Theosophists -- or Sufis. 

As for the differences between being WHITE or BLACK in the US -- while it 
still exists to a certain degree, it is very much less than before MLK Jr. 
martyred himself in the cause of "human equality"... Not "peace," by the way 
-- although, like Ghandi, he advocated and used peaceful resistance and 
protest to attain freedom from oppression and suppression for black 
Americans. 

Peace, in the other hand, is something that can only come about when all 
people recognize their fundamental equality, and are capable of working 
together to choose leaders who are capable of solving their inter-group, 
interracial, or international differences by peaceful negotiation or other 
means -- short of war. 

The differences you speak of and relate to peace, are not between "Black and 
White," but between former slave and freeborn, former farmer and city 
dweller, uneducated and educated, pauper and wealthy, ruled and rulers, male 
and female, hetero and homosexual, and hundreds of other major and minor 
separations and resultant discriminations that people become conditioned to 
by their parents, schooling, peers, etc. -- while not learning how to think 
for themselves.

This separative tendency is a fundamental problem of human nature based on 
"ignorance" -- which cannot be changed by proselytizing, preaching, edict, or 
government laws, rules and regulations -- but only by "self realization" 
gained by "self determined and self devised study and effort." Is that why 
theosophist's know the futility of engaging in politics? And why they also 
know that the only way for humanity to achieve real equality and real peace 
is to simply practice it themselves -- while minding their own business and 
not pointing fingers at others? 

As for "leg pulling" I'm glad you recognize (and enjoy) a good joke (on you 
;-) when you hear it. 

LHM <?:-)> (picture of a smiling bearded man wearing a French beret)
"Keep on Smiling" 
(as sung by Louis Armstrong -- is my theme song) 

---------------------------
In a message dated 11/18/02 11:23:13 AM, global-theosophy@adslhome.dk writes:

>Hi all of you,
>
>I laugh.
>And Yes Leon - I still have my legs, they are not gone, not yet that is!
>
>So no racism in USA ?
>No differences between being WHITE and BLACK as in 1968, when Martin Luther
>King Jr. did
>his best to make peace on this Planet ?
>
>Really....?
>
>from
>M. Sufilight with no smiles...but a happy face...
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <leonmaurer@aol.com>
>To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:11 PM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Status of Indigenous Australians
>
>
>> Hi M.
>>
>> I hope you know when your leg is being pulled. :-)
>>
>> If you did, you wouldn't have a happy smile... You'd be laughing out loud.
>>
>> In any event, I agree with Steve -- at least about the things he said
>> about freedom and Dopey Dubya.
>>
>> But, seriously, the one thing you should know is; The American people (who
>> don't own the global businesses) and the people who run this country and
>> make all the foreign affairs decisions, are birds of a different color.
>>
>> So, when you condemn the "US" imperialism, don't blame all us "Americans"
>> (although some of us may have voted, for one reason or another, for the
>> assholes at the top who push the buttons. ;-) The rest of us are either
>> "indigenous Americans," or a mixed bag of immigrants and their descendants,
>> who are about as free as they want to be in their local State and City
>> communities (each, with their own separate local laws, rules and 
regulations)
>> -- some of which have probably as many (or less), as ethnically pure (or
>> diverse), as prejudiced (or unprejudiced), as free (or unfree) people
>> as in your own country... (And, everything in-between.)
>>
>> LHM
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/15/02 11:44:07 AM, global-theosophy@adslhome.dk
>writes:
>>
>> >HI Steve and all of you,
>> >
>> >Thanks Steve that helped a lot !
>> >Maybe more than you would know.
>> >
>> >from
>> >M. Sufilight with a happy smile...
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Steve Stubbs" <stevestubbs@yahoo.com>
>> >To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
>> >Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:33 PM
>> >Subject: Re: Theos-World Status of Indigenous Australians
>> >
>> >
>> >> --- In theos-talk@y..., "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-> No Bart.
>> >> > We are just not going to fall on our knees in front of one single
>-
>> >> extremly
>> >> > nationalistic - country which
>> >> > say they follow the word "freedom" as their nickname - while they
>> >> do the
>> >> > opposite !
>> >>
>> >> Actually, what you think is freedom is another of Bush's
>> >> mispronunciations. Just as he cannot pronounce nuclear or Iraq
>> >> correctly he cannot pronounce oil correctly. Every time Bush says
>he
>> >> wants to go to war with Iraq over oil, it sounds like he is saying
>he
>> >> wants to go to war over freedom. He is not a liar. Just
>> >> inarticulate. He needs to resign and take a public speaking course.
>> >> Or just resign and go away, one of the two.
>> >>
>> >> > USA take more prisoners each year than for instance any of the
>> >> > EU-countries - looking at percentages.
>> >>
>> >> Absolutely true. That is the side effect of the so-called war on
>> >> drugs, which was initially well intentioned and which makes sense
>on
>> >> the face of it, but which has evolved into a job corps for out of
>> >> work prison officials and cops. The problem is, if the laws were
>> >> reformed, all those people would be put on the unemployment line.
> It
>> >> is a classic problem which has faced all societies, in which a vested
>> >> interest is created snd people fight like hell to keep it.
>> >>
>> >> Interestingly, this is a view shared by people across the political
>> >> spectrum, from William F Buckley to his counterparts of the left.
>> >>
>> >> > And what about the arab countries or India ?
>> >>
>> >> They are all far, far freer than the United States, no doubt about
>> >> it. Every Arab or Indian you speak to says they really miss that.
>> >> Some of us hope we can catch up someday.
>> >>
>> >> > And of course Bart will tell me, that the prisoners in the jails
>of
>> >> USA are
>> >> > allowed "FREE MIXING".
>> >>
>> >> Nonsense, total nonsense. Bart is a nice guy, but if he defends
>> >> Israel he will defend anything. Except the rights of Palestinians.
>> >>
>> >> > Have you ever visited one of the jails in that particular country
>?
>> >>
>> >> I will answer on his behalf. He has never even driven past one.
>> >>
>> >> > And I am not an anti-american, but I do believe, that peace is
>> >> important.
>> >> > Germany wants peace, but what does USA want ?
>> >>
>> >> Listen to George Bush's speeches some time when you need help going
>> >> to sleep. He wants war and he means to get it. Now that he has a
>> >> rubber stamp parliament it looks as if another war is inevitable.
>> >> The best we can hope for is that it is short and that he does not
>get
>> >> beaten too badly.
>> >>
>> >> You don't need an airline ticket Morten. You already have an
>> >> accurate view of the situation.
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>