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Re: Theos-World How do I get off this mailing list?

Nov 15, 2002 12:40 PM
by Morten Nymann Olesen

Hi Steve (<<not Steve Stubbs>>???) and all of you,

Thanks for your kind reply.

Try this article, which a posted just a few days ago to Bakthi Ananda
(November 14th 2002)

I think this article should be able to get you going - for a start.
What do you think about this and the article ?

Here it is:

*Theosophy - and Wisdom Organisations and
Their Mode of Operation *

*** Written in private
by Morten Sufilight ***

Theosophical Designs and The Mode of Operation
(Chapter 1)

I will start with the ordinary term called - Spiritual Development - or the
spiritual Seekers journey on the Path of initiation. The spiritual Seeker
has at the beginning of the journey and somewhat further - often the view,
that Spiritual Development is a journey or a series of journeys, which lead
to perfection. - There is a Path and a Spiritual Guide. That which often
confuses the spiritual seeker, is, whether it is literally a journey or a
metaphorical journey. The truth is both matters are of importance.

The spiritual Seeker often has to take long and exhausting journeys towards
perfection. There is both an inner and an outer journey to go through. The
one relates to the body. The other to the mental or the consciousness.
Thereafter the Spiritual Guide comes in to question. A personality, which
isn't to be worshipped blindly, because that is exactly NOT the idea with
having a spiritual guide; or teacher.
Such a teacher comes, teaches and guides a group of people at a certain
place and at a more or less fixed period of time. The teacher offers herself
or himself by he's or hers presence. Those who are interested have to offer
themselves as students.

The actual step - to become a student is difficult to make, even so if the
student believes that he or she really want to learn, - because the student
has to fight with different kinds of psychological emotional or mental
blockages - especially fear, doubt, uncertainty, and ignorance. Said with
psychological ulterior motive - the student wants to learn, but doesn't want
to give. If the student doesn't want to give the teacher his or hers
attention, then the student won't be able to learn.

The more down to earth person's minds are these days - in many ways today
very unstable and capricious. He or she maybe one day want to dabble into
Spiritual Development (for instance a version of Raja-yoga) and esoterical
teachings, - and then the next day - going out with friends getting stoned
in alcohol - is highest on the agenda. And then after a couple of weeks
Spiritual development is an important again - at least a little.
And most people in these days have a good deal of build in opposition, which
has to be overcome - before the step can be taken wholly and totally.

It may be that the Seeker has some background of self-development. Sometimes
this can be a drawback, because it can make him or her think that he/she
knows more than he/she does. This is showing his/hers lack of humility, and
lack of recognition of how much one really doesn't know anything about.
In the teachers (here a male) effort to give all he can to the disciple, the
teacher must reveal himself and his teaching little by little. If he where
to give his full concentration at too early a stage, the disciple would not
be able to absorb the teachings. Different aspects of the teacher are seen
at different times. Some people even think that they see actual faults in
the teacher. These strangely enough, are generally reflections of the faults
of the student, which are coming to the surface.

It is in order to place the disciple in a condition in which she/he can
become accessible to the understanding of truth, by an inner sense, that the
teacher takes on the burden of the student. He may have to ask for the
sacrifice of things, which the student prizes the most. This often from good
reasons, which will be explained, when time is right.
When deprived of the teacher, the student will often be guided by his/hers
own lower personality ("the commanding self"). A student at such a stage may
attach to any centre or organisation of attraction, which offers Spiritual
Development, and which the student finds exciting and interesting etc. This
is because the student is at a stage where Spiritual Organisations has
value - or that which the student thinks is Spiritual organisations, - but
the student hasn't yet developed his/hers sense of discrimination.

This situation may make the half-mature disciple proud, and she/he may set
himself/herself up as a teacher, especially if the teacher has given him/her
some authority. This sort of development is responsible for the
fragmentation of true teachings, and their absorption by pseudo-Theosophical
organisations, certain New Age Organisations or the like.
A sign of a deteriorated system is when the members seek only mystical
experience, "openings" or illumination without realising that this, if true,
will have a certain effect upon them. That is, Spiritual Development without
opening the heart-centre or the centre for compassion in a proper manner is
bad, and should be avoided.

The same goes for Meditation. Meditation gives some sort of calmness. But it
is a preparatory step, and gives calmness only as a 'signpost'. When the
calmness has been attained some people become addicted to it, and their
progress is frozen at that point. They have become meditation-addicts. This
is like the fat man (or woman), who must eat sugar because he has developed
a craving for it. Sugar is a means to an end, not an end. For him it has
become an end. Sugar is food and fuel. For this man it is a shackle on his
progress, making him heavier and heavier.
The same is true of some of the modern techniques or imitation cults - like
uncontrolled spiritual dancing or certain forms of psychotherapy - for
instance people seeking their inner 'release-scream' or where one 'blow of
steam' etc.
People who take these things up have forgotten, what spiritual development
really is - i.e. Theosophy (wisdom of the gods, or wisdom of God), to
produce the perfect being - the God of wisdom within. They are therefore
only dabbling. They use their experiences to convince themselves that they
are progressing. Conviction is not a fact.

But, these imitation cults mentioned above could in certain few cases lead
some people to spiritual heights - but they themselves are only beginner
One often has to learn, what Spiritual Development really is first. Some
throws them selves into the first and best they can lay their eyes on.
Others are thinking more carefully and deeply, and find the right method, or
what is the right method for them. This happens best in groups in this age
of information and communication - where a new paradigm is shinning more and
more bright in the horizon. But also some times alone. Being alone or not is
a matter of balance.

But also very often - the place, the organisation and the method one as a
newcomer or lesser experienced Seeker wants or thinks is the best for
oneself and perhaps even others - is really not so.
They - the newcomers - have a tendency - because of a still remaining
egoistic fragment in their character - to join those organisations, follow
those methods, which they them selves feel comfortable about - and that with
rather egoistical motives, whether they are conscious of it or not.
A major reason is often that, - what - one really needs to learn - one
really doesn't know much about. Only the initiate of the higher level
knows - really knows.
These newcomers are often not aware of, that there are many paths within the
teachings of Theosophy. (See "The Secret Doctrine", II, p.191, on the

In the following it could be of interest to keep the history of Theosophy or
the Wisdom Tradition in mind. One can read about the Theosophical history or
the history of the Wisdom Tradition somewhere on the Internet - by

Let us revert to the Spiritual journey. From time to time suitable teachers
of the Wisdom Tradition has been sent by their Masters or guides to travel
to a certain place and establish the teaching. Such teachers have an
influence on various levels.

Those above mentioned Spiritual teachers work has not only been to give
people Spiritual guidance and education. It has also been to prepare the
ground for further development of the living progress of the Path of Wisdom.
There are also minor emissaries who are sent out to teach and prepare the
ground for further development. These people has been known to set
themselves up as ultimate authorities, because part of their training is to
test their loyalty to the whole School of Wisdom, which is as generally
known consisting of one entity.
But, if, a teacher of the Wisdom tradition dies, or there is a gap in the
teaching, what then? The interesting thing is, that the very gap is a part
of the training. You may explain certain things to a child : shall we say
teach her or him not to do certain things. Then you will pretend to go out
of the house - and observe her or him. According to how well he/she has
learned, so will he/she react. In this 'absence exercise', precisely the
same thing happens to the teacher of Wisdom, though many are not conscious
of it.

After the disappearance from the field of a teacher of Wisdom, the followers
will divide themselves into groups, in accordance with their strength and
weaknesses. Some will assume control of others. They may be good or bad, and
this will be shown by their reaction to - the second teacher - when he/she
If they realise he/she is their teacher, then they have merely been
developing themselves and can mature. But if they have become atrophied,
they will be too blind to recognize the Spirituality of the very teacher,
for which appearance they have been prepared. They may attach themselves, in
default, to a different group. (And this groups existence is maybe no
coincidence.) Again well and good : providing they return to the mainstream
of teaching when it is offered to them again. This is the test of whether
they have overcome the lower self. They will realise, if they are
sufficiently developed, that the person who appears to be 'second' teacher
is in reality - the first in importance.

Life is reversed for the undeveloped man (the newcomer), and he/she will
behave in accordance with this. The first teacher does not make life easier,
in most cases, for the generality of disciples. He/She will teach them
things, which are only of use when the second teacher arrives and reality
falls into place. The object of this is twofold. In the first place, certain
valuable thoughts have been given to the disciples. In the second, they are
tested by the means of these ideas. Just as our western psychologists give
odd-shaped pieces of wood to people, to see how they put them together,
teachers of Wisdom will give odd-pieces of material of - mental kind - to
his/her followers. - If they try to fit these together however, and to make
a pattern in his/hers - absences, - they are becoming 'fossilised'. Because,
the Wisdom tradition has to show that the object of mankind is not to
construct idols, but to follow a supreme pattern, which is learnt piece by

Quite obviously the semi-blind among the people, during their
'waiting-period', will try to work out their own interpretation. They may,
as have been done in the past, write books to explain what they have
learned. This is the danger-point, because when a man/woman is accepted as,
say, a philosopher (of wisdom) because she/he has written a book explaining
a philosophy, he/she will not readily accept, that she/he only have been
'fumbling'. He/She has quite possibly become a prisoner of his/hers lower
self. The self-conceit of the man/woman is now bound up with his/hers
'creation', the book or the method, which he/she has used to organise the
fragments, which he/she has. He/she is probably or possibly lost - for the
In order to break through this shell of accretions and fossilisations,
the - second teacher - will tend to act in a different, perhaps in a certain
dramatically different manner, from the original one. This could happen, to
break the 'idols', which have been formed out of the thoughts, which were
originally given.
So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, not to
support a system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in
which the Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of
ideas and movements. This seems important to understand and know about.

When a system of teaching of wisdom is in a period of fallowness, because
the one who propagated it is dead, then there comes a period of stagnation.
This period can last between 10 years, 15 years or more. In the time, which
passes, the group of people who is affected by the system are sieved by
natural means. Some wander away. Others carry on automatically not really
knowing, what they are doing. They are now 'frozen', though they do not know
they are.
The blind may try to lead the blinder. This takes the form of assumption of
authority by those who were given some sort of authority in the original
mandate. These are the people in the most dangerous position, because the
longer they remain 'orphaned' the more strongly their lower self (or the
three lower bodies) asserts it self.
Others may modify the teachings in a learned and personal way. Some
certainly fall a prey to cults, which have come into being in order to serve
them. The people who joins these are at great pains to explain why they
consider, that they represent the same kind of teaching - and this is
important. It is important, because it shows the Theosophist or the real
spiritually minded, very clearly, that the people who try to explain - are
in fact troubled by conscience. Somewhere inside them, they know, that they
are identifying themselves with an imitation, or a second-best. But they are
supported by their lower bodies or lower personality, - and this is too
strong for them.
Those can be helped by being lead to think in new thinking-patterns and
systems. It is via the conscience, that one finds the path forward, -
thereby will be able to remove the limitations of the lower personality.

Imagine a group of people shipwrecked. They think there is no hope of
rescue. They find a raft, and are glad. After a time more people come along
in a big boat. But the first people will not leave the raft, because they
have become used to it. They may have convinced themselves, that it is
actually a boat. (So it is to some philosophical or religious people today.)
The points at which the mystical traditions, which are still alive, are in
contact with each other cannot really be explained by the means of books.
And yet people continue to write books showing how they have found this and
that point of resemblance.
The truth can only be found by actual experience, - and easier by awareness
on such aspect as I have touch upon.

To sink ecstasy in Wisdom is better than to sink Wisdom in ecstasy. The
Wisdom Tradition teaches by several different systems, and not only by
one, - one book or teen books, BUT also by thousands and thousands of
books - and the dogmatic ones doesn't want to listen.

M. Sufilight with his sufi friends...and a big grin...

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World How do I get off this mailing list?

> Namaste Y'all
> My frustration is I see the "cyber" theosophy sites as getting to
> involved with words, writers and the politics of the society. Quoting
> and verse from SD and arguing over the legitimacy of writings is missing
> point. It does not matter from where the information came, what matters is
> how useful it is for you at this point on your journey. If people get to
> caught up in the works of yesterday, we will not move on. Generation of
> original thoughts and ideas is creating a new reality, mulling over the
> thoughts of others is meaningless as we cannot understand where they were
> the time those thoughts were created. The great teachers come to show us
> way, let's not end up worshiping their finger.
> Steve
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

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