Theos-Talk Archives (November 2002 Message tt00237)

I have been reading about the TS as a group of personalities for 30 
years now, and combined with my intuition I never thought there was 
any connection of substance between HPB and WCL. And as we know HPB 
is not shy. If she had some substantial dealings with WCL and that 
group...it would be documented somewhere. No way did she give WCL the 
Voice. I have read all of ODL by Olcott and that is the real 
historian of the group. While he had more of a relationship with 
Annie who was involved with WLC and others, even he mentions WLC 
little if at all. I think there was a strain, but probably suspect 
that the interests of the two groups were probably splintered which 
happens all the time in these groups. 

Just like one yahoo group grows out of another one. There is no 
hostility there necessarily just people exploring their interests in 
more depth. Now, we know that WLC did have an interest in having 
young men follow him and vice versa, plus his spiritists interest. 
There is a great deal spoken about the relationship between WLC and 
Krishnamurti in the books about K's life. That is good source 
actually. Luckily K and his brother were not part of WLC's entourage 
as far as emotionally. K said he did not like WLC but loved Red 
Annie....

Netemara

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--- In theos-talk@y..., <gregory@z...> wrote:
> The claim that Leadbeater was a member of ³HPB¹s circle in Avenue 
Road² both lacks any support from historical evidence, and is 
contrary to such evidence as there is. It was a claim only made (of 
course) after HPB¹s death. What is meant by ³a member of HPB¹s 
circle²? Clearly, it does not mean membership of the ES, let alone of 
the IG of the ES; membership lists for both exist and Leadbeater was 
not among those named. Why was he not a member of either of these two 
groups?
> No correspondence between HPB and Leadbeater exists to support any 
intimate relationship, and no correspondence of HPB exists in which 
there is any reference to Leadbeater implying any such relationship. 
Leadbeater is known to have visited HPB twice between his return to 
England from India and her death. Boris de Zirkhoff stated that there 
was no evidence in any of HPB¹s papers or correspondence to suggest 
any close relationship between Leadbeater and HPB, and Alice Leighton 
Cleather, a member of HPB¹s Inner Group, denied that HPB had ever 
referred to Leadbeater as a pupil or associate, and said she had 
never seen him at the London headquarters during HPB¹s life. 
Leadbeater¹s own accounts of his life at that period make no 
reference to or claim of a special relationship with HPB - until he 
revised his history well after HPB¹s death. Indeed, Leadbeater was a 
member of the London Lodge, and a close associate of A.P. Sinnett, at 
a time when there was tension, if not conflict, between Sinnett and 
the London Lodge, and HPB and the Blavatsky Lodge. Leadbeater acted 
as a medium in Sinnett¹s quest to make contact with the Masters, and 
was a member of what was, in effect, Sinnett¹s ³Inner Group².
> Jinarajadasa, who was living with Leadbeater at the time, made no 
claim for any special relationship between HPB and Leadbeater in his 
accounts of the period. See, for example, Jinarajadasa¹s ³K.H.Letters 
to C.W.Leadbeater², 1943:68-69. 
> Given the total absence of evidence to support the claim that 
Leadbeater was a member of ³HPB¹s circle in Avenue Road², and the 
evidence against the claim, anyone asserting Leadbeater¹s special 
relationship is obliged to present their evidence.
> The claim that HPB presented Leadbeater with the ³first copy² of 
³The Voice of the Silence² is similarly entirely unsupported by 
historical evidence. That she presented him with a copy is certain; 
curiously enough, her inscription in that copy does not correctly 
name Leadbeater. She inscribed it to ³W.C.Leadbeater². This implies 
either that she did not even correctly recall his name, or that she 
was making a peculiarly English joke at his expense. Neither 
explanation suggests a close or personal relationship. As with all 
claims about Leadbeater, those who make them should present evidence, 
not mere assertions in the absence of evidence. Given that Leadbeater 
was obviously a pathological liar, nothing can be taken on his word 
alone.
> 
> Dr Gregory Tillett