Theos-Talk Archives (November 2002 Message tt00133)

--- In theos-talk@y..., "brianmuehlbach" <brianmuehlbach@y...> wrote:
> THE INTERNAL EVIDENCE IN THE LETTERS THEMSELVES IS ALL THAT 
> IS NEEDED TO REFUTE THEIR CLAIM TO A HIGHER SOURCE. I 
> SUPPOSE THAT AS LONG AS PEOPLE WANT TO BELIEVE SUCH UTTER 
> NONSENSE, THERE IS NOTHING THAT THOSE WHO ARE NOT 
> ENTHRALLED BY IT CAN DO TO DISILLUSION THEM.
>  
***************

Brian you know what I would say to that---Rubbish!!!

The Theosophical members were the ones being hidden. They are/were 
the masters. Not ascended anything. Humans having a spiritual 
experience as the saying goes. People WANT to believe that divinity 
could NOT come in a form other than human, thus the creation of gods 
who were not human, but ethereal, otherness, other than human. IT was 
the MOTHER of necessity. It was the silliness of humanity that 
created the need and urge to create the illusion. 

When Jesus said "hey I am a man" they changed him into a god. When 
the White Brotherhood (through HPB) said "hey we are men" they were 
changed into gods. Is that a crime I ask? If the owner of a store 
changes the name of his store, and what he decides to sell, are 
people going to ask him why? Yes, they might, but he does not need 
their permission. They will either go there or not.

I know what you are going to say "HPB believed her own stories, made 
others believe her version of the truth, therefore she was a 
charlatan." She was in reality A group. The Group was the gods, and 
those she designated as The White Brotherhood were no more, no less 
evolved than those who were part of the original group. That is the 
simple truth. The names were changed to protect the innocent. 

Someday soon the whole truth will be revealed. It is already known.

Netemara

PS: As for the British Museum all you have to do is ask them. They 
will give permission easily enough. However, you might have to pay 
per letter that is copied, or per page and that could be expensive. I 
know someone who did something similar. They are pretty reasonable.
Perhaps they will do, have done what the Vatican has done: make 
everything available online.
**************

> THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES. THAT THE LETTERS ARE NOT FROM 
> ANY SUCH THING AS A HIGHER SOURCE, OR ASCENDED MASTER IS 
> SELF EVIDENT. THERE IS NOTHING HIGHER OR SUPER HUMAN 
> CONTAINED IN THEM AT ALL. ANYTHING WORTHWHILE IN THEM HAS 
> BEEN TAKEN FROM OTHER REAL-WORLD EARTHLY SOURCES. THE 
> LETTERS WERE OBVIOUSLY A MERE RUSE TO PROVIDE CREDIBILITY TO 
> HPB AND HER FRIENDS AMONG THEIR SELF-DELUDED, CREDULOUS 
> FOLLOWERS.
> 
> HPB AND FRIENDS WERE ALL PERSONS AFFLICTED WITH SPECIAL-
> NESS...THE NEED TO EXALT THEMSELVES ABOVE OTHER HUMAN 
> BEINGS THROUGH THE CREATION OF A PATHOLOGICAL MUTUAL-
> APPRECIATION SOCIETY OF FELLOW ELITISTS. 
> 
> THE MAHATMAS GAVE THEM ALL SPECIAL-NESS. THEIR PROUD 
> KNOWER / GNOSTIC FOLLOWERS TODAY ARE ALSO AFFLICTED WITH 
> THE PATHOLOGICAL DESIRE FOR SPECIAL-NESS. THIS DRIVES THEM 
> AND IS WHY THEY CAN NEVER LET GO OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE SO-
> CALLED MAHATMAS / ASCENDED MASTERS. 
> 
> THE MASTERS MUST BE REAL, OR THEY LOSE THEIR SPECIAL-NESS 
> AND BECOME LIKE, OR LESS, THAN EVERYONE ELSE. THEY BECOME 
> SELF-DELUDED AND DELUDING FOOLS WHO HAVE INVESTED THEIR 
> LIVES IN A CRUDE HOAX. THUS THE 'MAHATMAS', ASCENDED 
> MASTERS, OR 'MASTERED BEINGS' HAVE BECOME THE ALL-CONSUMING 
> SELF-DEFINING REALITY OF THEIR FANATICAL BELIEVERS. NO 
> AMOUNT OF REASON WILL EVER PRY THEM LOOSE FROM FROM 
> THESE 'MASTERS', THEY ARE IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE. THEY HAVE 
> DEEP-SEATED PSYCHOLOGICAL NEEDS TO HANG-ON TO THEIR SPECIAL-
> NESS, AND THE MASTERS ALONE PROVIDE IT. 
>  
> THEY WOULD NOT NEED THEIR ASCENDED MASTERS TO SAVE THEM 
> FROM UN-SPECIAL-NESS IN AN ENDLESS CYCLE OF SAMSARA. AS IT 
> IS, THESE PATHETIC BEINGS ARE DESPERATE TO HANG ON TO THEIR 
> PRIVILEGED POSITION IN PROXIMATION TO THE MASTERS, WHO GIVE 
> THEM SPECIAL-NESS, SAVING THEM FROM BEING LIKE ALL OTHER 
> SOULS. 
>  
> ALL LONG AS PEOPLE NEED TO FEEL THEMSELVES BETTER OR 
> DIFFERENT THAN OTHERS, THEY WILL CONTINUE TO INVENT THOUGHT 
> SYSTEMS THAT MAKE THEM A SPECIAL ELITE DUE TO RACE 
> OR 'KNOWLEDGE', PROXIMITY TO ALIENS OR ASCENDED MASTERS 
> ETC. THESE CADRES OF ELITISTS WILL REINFORCE EACHOTHERS' 
> SENSE OF SPECIAL-NESS AND HAVE A DIVISIVE EFFECT IN HUMAN 
> SOCIETY. 
>  
> THE PROBLEM WITH THEOSOPHISTS IS NOT THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT 
> THE MAHATMAS' LETTERS ARE REAL, IT IS THAT THEY WANT TO 
> BELIEVE THAT THE MAHATMAS' LETTERS ARE REAL. 
>  
> IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WAKE SOMEONE AS LONG AS THEY ARE 
> PRETENDING TO SLEEP. 
>  
>  
> Editor: Someone wrote the "white" lineage of Tibet is the Kargyu 
> lineage… 
> 
> THERE WAS A COMPLEX YUGA (WORLD EON or AGE), LILA (ACTIVITY)  
> AND VARNA (OCCUPATIONAL PREDISPOSITION) ASSOCIATED WITH 
> THE SYMBOLISM OF VARIOUS COLORS. APPEARED AS BLACK (BLUE) , 
> GREEN, WHITE, RED AND YELLOW IN DIFFERENT YUGAS OR LOKAS 
> (LOCATIONS / WORLDS) AND LILAS (PLAY ACTIVITIES) . THESE KIND 
> OF COLORS ARE SEEN IN THE SACRED ART OF VISHNU, SHIVA (AND 
> THEIR SHAKTIS), AND IN PURE LAND BUDDHISM, INCLUDING THE 
> TIBETAN TRADITION, FOR INSTANCE IN THE CULTS OF WHITE TARA, 
> GREEN TARA ETC. BARAHA (BOAR FORM OF VISHNU) IS OFTEN RED, 
> MAHAKALA (TIME FORM OF SHIVA OR KRISHNA) IS BLACK OR BLUE, 
> LOKESVARA IS OFTEN BLUE, MANJUSHRI MAY BE WHITE ETC. ON THE 
> TANGKAS, THE DIRECTIONS AND PRESIDING FORMS OF THE DEITY ON 
> THE MANDALA / YANTRA WILL BE RENDERED IN A COMPLEX SYMBOLIC 
> COLOR SCHEME. THE EMANATIONS AND INCARNATIONS OF THE LORD 
> AND HIS SHAKTI, LADY TARA, WILL BE COLORED IN KEEPING WITH THE 
> ANCIENT TRADITIONS RELATIVE TO THE DOCTRINES OF YUGA, GUNA, 
> LILA, VARNA, LOKA, DIRECTION, VYUHA, AVATARAS, AND VARIOUS 
> LINEAGES ETC REFERING TO INDIC TRADTIONS FOR CROSS-
> CHECKING THE MEANINGS OF THESE YANTRAS, REVEALS THAT THERE 
> IS NO AUTHENTIC ANCIENT CASE IN WHICH ANY ACTUAL RACIAL 
> CONNOTATIION IS ASSOCIATED WITH THEM .  
>  
> IN FACT, THE SANKSRIT WORDS FOR BLACK AND BLUE MAY READILY 
> BE EXCHANGED OR CONFOUNDED. THIS IS SO COMMON, THAT 
> KRISHNA IS ROUTINELY PICTURED AS EITHER BLACK OR BLUE. IN 
> NEITHER CASE IS HIS BLACKNESS A HUMAN 'BLACKNESS' . IN THE 
> SAME WAY, THE WHITE SKIN OF SUKLA BALA IS SNOW-WHITE, NOT 
> A 'CAUCASIAN' HUMAN SKIN-TONE. THE COLORS OF THE VARNAS, 
> WHITE FOR BRAHMINS, RED FOR KSHATRIYAS, YELLOW FOR VAISHAS  
> AND BLACK FOR SUDRAS HAS NO RACIAL CONNOTATION IN THE 
> AUTHENTIC SOURCES. 
> 
> AGAIN WE SEE THAT THE LATE THEOSOPHISTS REINTERPRETED 
> THESE TRADITIONS AS SUPPORTING THEIR IDEAS OF RACIST 
> ARYANISM.  
> TO MAKE THE ARYANS WHITES AND RACISTS, THEY HAD TO REMOVE 
> VISHNU, SHIVA AND LOKESVARA , THE 'BLACK' (BLUE SAME WORD) 
> GODS OF THE ARYANS FROM THE PICTURE ! IT SIMPLY WOULD NOT 
> BE ACCEPTABLE FOR THE ARYANS TO WORSHIP A 'BLACK' GOD. SO 
> USING ATHEISTIC ADVAITA VEDANTIST WORD JUGGLERY, THEY 
> REMOVED THE 'ARYANS' DEITY OUT OF HIS OWN SCRIPTURES. THEY 
> EITHER RE-CREATED RAMA AND KRISHNA AS ARYAN RACE HEROES, OR 
> THEY EXPLAINED THEM OUT OF THEIR OWN SCRIPTURES. SINCE THE 
> IMPERSONALIST AND ATHEIST MAYAVADI HINDUS AND THERAVADIN 
> BUDDHIST HAD ALREADY REMOVED THE DEITY FROM 'HINDUISM' 
> AND 'BUDDHISM', 
> 
> THIS IS THE SAME KIND OF EXTREME CORRUPTION OF TRADITION 
> THAT THE 'HOLY BLOOD, HOLY GRAIL' KIND OF GNOSTIC RACE 
> FANATICS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR IN CHRISTIANITY. GOD / JESUS 
> MUST BE RECAST AS A RACIAL ARYAN, OR REJECTED ENTIRELY.  
> HUMANITY'S TIME-DEPTH MEMORY IS USUALLY ONLY AS OLD AS ONE 
> OR TWO GENERATIONS. IF A NEW GENERATION IS RAISED WITH NO 
> ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE PAST, OR ITS RELIGIOUS 
> TRADITIONS, THEN IT MAY BE INDOCTRINATED WITH PRACTICALLY 
> ANY IDEOLOGY OR HISTORICAL WORLD VIEW. UNDER THE BRITISH IN 
> INDIA, IT WAS FORBIDDEN FOR AUTHENTIC VAISHNAVAS TO TEACH 
> THE BHAGAVAD-GITA IN THE SCHOOLS. THE AUTHENTIC GITA OF SRI 
> KRISHNA WAS CONSIDERED TOO POLITICALLY DANGEROUS. THE 
> CHINESE TRIED TO WIPE-OUT PURE LAND BUDDHISM IN CHINA AND 
> HAVE ALL BUT DESTROYED AUTHENTIC TIBETAN BUDDHISM. THEY 
> HAVE ALSO EMPLOYED CORRUPTION AND CONTROL OF THE TRADITION 
> ITSELF TO DO THIS. THE CHINESE HAVE TRIED TO CORRUPT 
> CATHOLICISM BY CREATING AND CONTROLLING THEIR OWN STATE-
> RUN CHINESE 'CATHOLIC CHURCH'. IN THE SAME WAY, THE EURO-
> ARYANISTS TRIED TO USE THE RELIGION OF THE ARYAS TO SUPPORT 
> THEIR RACIST AGENDA, BY RE-CASTING RAMA AND KRISHNA AS ARYAN 
> RACE HEROES. THE MUSLIMS REDACTED HINDU TEXTS TO CONTROL 
> THE MASSES OF INDIA. MUCH OF THE KORAN ITSELF IS A RE-
> WORKING OF JEWISH AND CHRISTIAN TRADITON. SOME MUSLIM 
> NATIONS FORBID THE POSSESSION OF A REAL BIBLE UNDER PAIN OF 
> DEATH. HITLER TRIED TO USE TEUTONIC PAGAN TRADITIONS TO HIS 
> ADVANTAGE IN UNIFYING THE GERMANIC PEOPLES. RELIGION HAS 
> ALWAYS BEEN USED, CORRUPTED AND ABUSED FOR THE PURPOSES OF 
> CONQUEST AND SOCIAL CONTROL. 
>  
> SO ON ONE HAND WE ARE TOLD THAT 'ARYA' MEANS THE 'WHITE 
> RACE', AND ON THE OTHER HAND WE ARE TOLD THAT IT IS A 
> RELIGIOUS, SYMBOLIC TERM WITH NO RACIAL CONNOTATION AT ALL.   
> THUS SANSKRIT TERMS LIKE 'ARYA' AND 'KRISHNA' ARE INTERPRETED 
> AND REINTERPRETED, ACCORDING TO THEIR CONTEXT, ANY WAY IT 
> SUITS THE THEOSOPHISTS AT THE MOMENT. ARYA ONLY MEANS 
> RACE WHEN THEY WANT IT TO !
>  
> THE LORD'S EMANATIONS / THEOPHANIES, YUGA , LILA AND GUNA 
> AVATARAS AND MURTI AND TANGKA FORMS OF COLOR, CLEARLY 
> REVEAL THE ANCIENT AUTHENTIC USES OF THIS SYMBOLISM, DEVOID 
> OF ANY REFERENCE TO MUNDANE COLOR OR RACISM. 
> 
> . IT IS SAID THAT THE EXISTANCE OF RACE IN OUR WORLD IS A 
> MUNDANE REFLECTION OF THE VARIEGATED BEAUTIFUL COLORS OF 
> OUR BEATIFIED SPIRITUAL BODIES IN THE IMMATERIAL REALM. NO 
> WHERE IN VAISHNAVA TRADITION IS THE BLACKNESS OF SRI KRISHNA 
> ASSOCIATED WITH EVIL.....BUT STILL MONIER WILLIAMS MADE THIS 
> ASSOCIATION IN HIS ARYANIST SANSKRIT-ENGLISH DICTIONARY ! IN 
> THIS WORK, THE BLUE / BLACK MEANING FOR THE WORD-ROOT OF 
> THE NAME 'KRISHNA' WAS TRANSLATED BY MONIER-WILLIAMS 
> AS 'BLACK' AND ASSOCIATED WITH EVIL ! HE IGNORED THE 
> TRADITIONAL MEANINGS AND BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATIONS AND 
> IMPOSED A RACIST WHITE-BLACK / GOOD-EVIL MEANING ON THE 
> ENTIRE SUBJECT. THUS SRI KRISHNA WAS DEALT WITH TWO WAYS 
> BY THE EURO-ARYANISTS. HE WAS RECAST AS A WHITE ARYAN RACE 
> HERO TEACHING ADVAITA VEDANTA, OR HE WAS DIABOLIAZED AS A 
> DIFFERENT KRISHNA, AN EVIL BLACK ONE, THE TRIBAL GOD OF A 
> BUNCH OF IDOLATROUS SAVAGES. TO THIS DAY THIS NONSENSE 
> IDEA OF TWO DIFFERENT KRISHNAS DOMINATES THE DISCUSSION OF 
> THE ARYANISTS WITH REGARD TO THE KRISHNA OF THE GITA. THE 
> ARYANISTS WANT THE GITA, BUT NOT ITS BLACK DEITY, SO THEY 
> INSIST THAT THE KRISHNA OF THE GITA IS A SELF-REALIZED ADVAITA 
> VEDANTIST ARYAN, AND THE KRISHNA OF THE OTHER BHAKTI 
> SHASTRAS AND IDOLATROUS VAISHNAVAS' ALTARS IS SOME OTHER 
> BLACK-EVIL LOW CLASS TANTRIC DEVA / GOD.    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A CROSS-CULTURAL CHECK ALSO CONFIRMS THAT THE SUPREME 
> LORD IN THE MEDITERRANEAN REGION WAS ALSO COMMONLY 
> DEPICTED IN NON-WHEN WE COME HEREW WE TRY TO RECREATE THE 
> BEUATIFUL COLORS OF THE SUPER-MUNDANE REALM, BUT ARE ONLY 
> ABLE TO EMBODY OURSELVES IN EARTHY SHADES / HUMAN COLORS.  
> HOWEVER WHEN GOD STEPS INTO OUR WORLD, HE CAN REVEAL 
> HIMSELF IN THE BEAUTY OF IN-HUMAN COLORS. THUS OSIRIS WAS 
> BLUE, BLACK, GREEN, RED OR YELLOW. SKR (SUKLA / SUKRA BALA) OR 
> SOKAR WAS WHITE. HERI WAS DEPICTED IN A VARIETY OF COLORS 
> JUST LIKE OSIRIS. THE SUPREME FATHER-GOD WAS OFTEN BLUE. ( I 
> WILL INSERT SOMETHING ABOUT THIS BELOW). IN VAISHNAVA 
> TRADITION IT IS ASSERTED THAT THOSE IN THE TRANSCENDENT 
> SPIRITUAL SKY HAVE NON-MATERIAL FORMS WITH COLORS 
> SOMETHING LIKE THE FLOWER COLORS OF OUR WORLD ! SRI 
> KRISHNA'S TRANSCENDENTAL PLAYMATES, FOR EXAMPLE, ARE 
> GREEN, BLUE, YELLOW ETC. IT IS SAID THAT THE EXISTANCE OF 
> RACE IN OUR WORLD IS A MUNDANE REFLECTION OF THE VARIEGATED 
> BEAUTIFUL COLORS OF OUR BEATIFIED SPIRITUAL BODIES IN THE 
> IMMATERIAL REALM. NO WHERE IN VAISHNAVA TRADITION IS THE 
> BLACKNESS OF SRI KRISHNA ASSOCIATED WITH EVIL.....BUT STILL 
> MONIER WILLIAMS MADE THIS ASSOCIATION IN HIS ARYANIST 
> SANSKRIT-ENGLISH DICTIONARY ! IN THIS WORK, THE BLUE / BLACK 
> MEANING FOR THE WORD-ROOT OF THE NAME 'KRISHNA' WAS 
> TRANSLATED BY MONIER-WILLIAMS AS 'BLACK' AND ASSOCIATED 
> WITH EVIL ! HE IGNORED THE TRADITIONAL MEANINGS AND 
> BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATIONS AND IMPOSED A RACIST WHITE-BLACK / 
> GOOD-EVIL MEANING ON THE ENTIRE SUBJECT. THUS SRI KRISHNA 
> WAS DEALT WITH TWO WAYS BY THE EURO-ARYANISTS. HE WAS 
> RECAST AS A WHITE ARYAN RACE HERO TEACHING ADVAITA 
> VEDANTA, OR HE WAS DIABOLIAZED AS A DIFFERENT KRISHNA, AN 
> EVIL BLACK ONE, THE TRIBAL GOD OF A BUNCH OF IDOLATROUS 
> SAVAGES. TO THIS DAY THIS NONSENSE IDEA OF TWO DIFFERENT 
> KRISHNAS DOMINATES THE DISCUSSION OF THE ARYANISTS WITH 
> REGARD TO THE KRISHNA OF THE GITA. THE ARYANISTS WANT THE 
> GITA, BUT NOT ITS BLACK DEITY, SO THEY INSIST THAT THE KRISHNA 
> OF THE GITA IS A SELF-REALIZED ADVAITA VEDANTIST ARYAN, AND 
> THE KRISHNA OF THE OTHER BHAKTI SHASTRAS AND IDOLATROUS 
> VAISHNAVAS' ALTARS IS SOME OTHER BLACK-EVIL LOW CLASS 
> TANTRIC DEVA / GOD.  
> So I don't care what Daniel C.Caldwell calls me, last week he 
called 
> me "jasmine." Fact is my name is Brian, but never mind on-line you 
can 
> call me anything you want, John or Max, or Brenda or Fritz or 
Joanne, 
> whatever. 
> 
> The real issue is that since Daniel H. Caldwell has no answers to 
the 
> question posted he must know the Mahatma Letters are a concocted 
> Fraud.
> 
> Otherwise how does Daniel H. Caldwell explains something like"
> 
> Or that "Koot Hoomi"'s claim that "..." ?
> 
> Daniel H. Caldwell also circumvents the issues reg. the `MASTER' 
that 
> THEY CLAIM TO BE MASTERS OF ANCIENT INDIAN OR "ESOTERIC 
> BUDDHIST" TRADITION, R WATEVER, BUT GIVE NO EVIDENCE OF ANY 
> REAL MASTERY OF THESE TRADITIONS AT ALL. AT BEST THEY 
> APPEAR TO BE HIGHLY EDUCATED WESTERNERS AND UNDISCIPLINED 
> HINDU-BUDDHIST NEOPHYTES.
> 
> THEIR 'VOICE' IS ALL WRONG FOR REAL ANCIENT ADEPTS, AND THE 
> MASTERFUL CONTENT OF THEIR LETTERS IS LAUGHABLE. I WILL 
> ASK "WHAT ARE THE AUTHORS OF THESE LETTERS THE MASTERS 
> OF ? IF THESE LETTERS ARE THEIR CREDENTIALS, THEN WHAT IS 
> THEIR APPARENT QUALIFICATION FOR TEACHING ?" WHERE IS THE 
> PROOF IN THE LETTERS THAT THESE "MAHATMAS" ARE WHAT AND 
> WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE ? IF THEY KNEW THE TRUTH 
> ABOUT "INDIAN" AND EGYPTIAN TRADITIONS ETC. BACK THEN, THEN 
> WHY DID THEY TEACH SO MUCH UTTER NONSENSE AND MISLEAD 
> PEOPLE ? " THE 'MASTERS' CAN BE EXPOSED JUST BY EXAMINING 
> THEIR CLAIMED EXPERTISE. WHAT KNOWLEDGE IS EVIDENT IN 'THEIR' 
> LETTERS? LET US GIVE THESE 'MASTERS' AN EXAM ON REAL-WORLD 
> INDO-ASIAN OR EGYPTIAN TRADITIONS. THEY WILL FAIL. DO YOU 
> THINK THAT THEY WILL SHOW-UP AGAIN TO EXPLAIN TO THE WORLD 
> WHY THEY FAILED ? 
> 
> SURELY THEIR SELF-DELUDED CHELAS WILL RATIONALIZE THEIR 
> ERRORS AND OMISSIONS AND CONTRADICTIONS, BUT ANYONE, WHO 
> NOT SO ENTHRALLED TO THEM, WILL SEE THAT THE 'MASTERS' WERE 
> MASTERS OF EXACTLY WHAT HPB AND FRIENDS WERE MASTERS OF, 
> AND NOTHING MORE.
>   
>  
> --- In theos-talk@y..., <dalval14@e...> wrote:
> > Nov 8 2002
> > 
> > Dear Friends :
> > 
> > In recent weeks we have been discussing the subject of Man's 
> evolution
> > and the 7-fold nature of our Earth as represented in the "Globes"
> > ( see S D I 200 diagram ).
> > 
> >