Theos-Talk Archives (November 2002 Message tt00041)

Hi Daniel and all of you,

Thanks for your answer Daniel.
Now follows a long answering email. But one with content for sure.

My answers to Daniels below comments - and - my views are:

1. *No. The prevoius email on the Mahatma letter was not that unique. I
certainly agree on that.*

2. Daniel wrote in the below: "In each and every case including yours
oo --- these students are
> apparently assuming they know what the real teaching is all about or
> that they have a better conception of what a real Master would write
> or not write. Therefore they conclude that because this or that
> Mahatma Letter does not live up to their "standard" therefore there
> must be something wrong with the letter."
My Sufilight answer:
*Daniel - I think this is wrong. I did clearly NOT put out, that I had a
BETTER conception of what a real
master would write. Is it necessary to do that ?*

3. *According to me reincarnation is a possible event for some people. Prove
me wrong if you can.*

4. Daniel wrote in the below:
"Of course this is possible but when reviewing ALL of the various
> objections one might conclude that there is hardly a theosophical
> teaching found in the Mahatma Letters that some student does not
> dispute.
>
> Therefore, should we conclude that all the letters are "faked"
> or "distorted"? "
My Sufilight answer:
*Daniel I agree that we can go on arguing on what is fake or not fake. That
was also what my last email stated.
It is always possible to raise a voice of opposition on this dualistic level
of "consciuosness".*

5. Daniel wrote in the below:
"Morten, you view ML 23-b as somehow "faked" but do you accept ML #10
> or #134? You may think these two letters are genuine but there are
> students who disagree. Who is right?"
My Sufilight answer:
*But will a simple answer to the above with a yes or a no have any real
importance ? I don't really think so.
The real importance is where PEACE can be acheived on this PLANET and ---
right now.
All right: ML 10 and 134 are by me considered more helpfull than
'harmless' - i.e. for the moment that is....
Fake ? I would'nt use that word on those (now public!) letters - at the
moment - even if it was true...

6.
Daniel wrote in the below:
"Concerning ML23-b, you write that it contains " 'careless' - remarks
on races and sub-races." But are the remarks actually careless?

I don't find the remarks to be "careless" when you view them in the
context of all of the theosophical teachings. "
My Sufilight answer:
*Yes Daniel. But if you read that particular letter ML23b - with a
dead-letter attitude, - The word RACISM for some quite easily comes to mind.
That is the trouble with the letter!
I claim: That the letter ML23b as such was written by a Mahatma to a certain
group of people, at a certain time, and not to a group in the present, year
2002, who are not particularily cleverminded persons - who read the Mahatam
Letter - by the dead-letter manner. (Well I know, I know: ... I can claim
what I want....>:-), I guess).
Time has sort of changed the letters content - and the importance of racism
as such is today higher than it was then. The ordinary reader of today would
for sure read the ML23b different than a reader from year 1882 would.
The ML23b is fake in the sense, that no true Master would TODAY write such a
letter and make it publicly known ! Past papers and pas books are nearly
always only recommended to a PAST audience by the true Master.
--- I suggest, this: Let us be more concerned with the present hour of
turmoil, pump and circumstance, than these past events.*

7. My assumptions are as good as anyone elses. That is true. Right ? >:-)
Laughs...

8. Daniel wrote in the below:
"Master KH never claimed to be all-knowing or infallible. He says
this more than once in the MLs. Yet you are assuming he should have
looked into the future, saw..., etc. etc."
My Sufilight answer:
*No Daniel. I am not only assuming that he/she should have looked that far
ahead into the future.
I state this as a clear fact while following my own knowledge about the
Masters. The details could maybe not be forseen. But the issue of "RACISM"
would be a easy one - to a Master that is. Well you are also free to call
that an assumption if you want to !*

9. Daniel wrote in the below:
"But HPB's writings on races seem to contain very SIMILAR ideas to
what KH writes in ML-23b. Following your previous reasoning, could
not one speculate that HPB's writings have been tampered with? Or
somehow faked?"
My Sufilight answer:
*Yes and no. The situation differs because Blavatsky was writing a book, and
because she was the person/soul she was, and because A. P. Sinnnett was the
person/soul he was. And let us remember, that some still hold it to be true
that some of the Mahatma Letters was transferred via some of the CHELAS. And
Chelas make mistakes.*

10. Daniel wrote in the below:
"Morten, you also mention Mr. Leadbeater:

". . . C.W. Leadebeaters - clearly fake 6th subrace version in his
book - 'Man Whence how and Whither' " I am somewhat surprised by your use of
the words: CLEARLY FAKE."
My Sufilight answer:
*Yes Daniel. I deeply regret that. I guess, that I maybe should have been
more informative there.
But NOW you gave me the possibility to do just that. (And that was believe
it or not - quite forseeable.)
According to my memory CWL was a priest, who became a Theosophist, and then
became a sort of a priest again.
That tells me something. And the unfortunate rumors about CWL being involved
in a childrens Sexscandal. That also tells me something. Be let us not use
prejudice here. CWL is because of his life as such a so-called HOT POTATO
theosophically speaking - and while debating on the Wisdom Teachings. (Well
some people like HOT potatos very much! >:-). Did CWL ever use the so-called
7 keys ? Did he counteract blind faith ?
In his book 'Man Whence how and Whither' , which A. Besant is said to be
co-author of, he states according to my memory, that he and other
theosophists - of 'high rank' was to reincarnate in USA to start up the 6th
subrace of the 5th rootrace. This is CLEARLY FAKE !
Well... to me and according to my ESP readings. (But that is of course put
out as an assumption... >:-))*

11. As far as I remember. You - Daniel Caldwell - havn't answered my email
on Nicholas Weeks anti-Bailey article "Theosophys Shadow" yet.
The email was presented here at theos-talk at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/8078
(I know I didn't question you directly. But, I find that SILENCE talks,
because you didn't answer the email.)
The email was an answer to the following email by you Daniel:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/8074

(Later but very related postings on the Nicholas Weeks article, (an article
you are presenting on your website), was for instance:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/8132 and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/8126)

Try read it all, it could be a good idea. Think or meditate it through as
you want.
We could call it: The Bailey connection.

12. Daniel wrote in the below:
"But if this question was answered, could this in anyway change your
mind that Mahatma Letter #23b was faked? Would knowing the exact
year in anyway confirm or falsify your assumption about this letter?"
My Sufilight answer:
*But Daniel maybe I didn't really want an answer to that question. Maybe I
wanted the readers to THINK.
To THINK is here to develop your inner organ - i.e. to merge with your
inner being. The person who first made the Mahatma Letter - ML23b public was
maybe a racist or just stupid...because of the misunderstandings it created
and creates.*

*It would be better if Theosophical groups had a more CLEAR stance on the
issues of RACES, Root-races, Sub-races - and the awfull issue RACISM.
Well couldn't some of you do an effort here ?? Please...?*
--- It is here I think that Brian are doing an (maybe unconscious)
effort. ---

Who is a "decoy" ? Or maybe better what is it ?

And please do feel free to remember to use 'the 7 keys' mentioned by
Blavatsky while reading emails like this...
>:-)
Feel absolutely free to be spiritually developed...

Come on you can do it: Be happy !

from
M. Sufilight with Krishna and Arjuna by my side...and a sweet email...













----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" <comments@blavatskyarchives.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 6:52 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: The Racist "Mahatma Letter"


> Dear Morten Nymann Olesen,
>
> I am responding to your email posted at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/8375
>
> You write:
>
> "Someone - NOT a Master changed it or did rewrite the letter [ML
> 23b] . . . ."
>
> This view is not really that unique. I have a whole file of letters
> and emails from various Theosophical students over the years who have
> proposed similar explanations about other Mahatma letters.
>
> But this is the first time I have heard anyone question this
> particular letter
> ( http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-23b.htm ).
>
> For example, some readers and students have suggested that some of
> the teachings about life after death as found in Koot Hoomi's letters
> could NOT have originated with the real Master. They suggest that
> HPB or some chela or even some dugpa must have added their two cents
> worth and therefore distorted the REAL teaching of the Master about
> various aspects of life after death.
>
> Or take Letter # 10
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-10.htm
> A number of students of the MLs believe that much of what is
> in this letter does not orginate with the real Master KH. HPB or
> somebody else must have distorted the message in the letter.
>
> The same for ML #134 where we find a message from M:
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-134.htm
>
> Or several Theosophical students who don't believe in reincarnation
> therefore have questioned the teaching of reincarnation as found in
> the MLs.
>
> I could cite other examples.
>
> In each and every case including yours too --- these students are
> apparently assuming they know what the real teaching is all about or
> that they have a better conception of what a real Master would write
> or not write. Therefore they conclude that because this or that
> Mahatma Letter does not live up to their "standard" therefore there
> must be something wrong with the letter.
>
> Of course this is possible but when reviewing ALL of the various
> objections one might conclude that there is hardly a theosophical
> teaching found in the Mahatma Letters that some student does not
> dispute.
>
> Therefore, should we conclude that all the letters are "faked"
> or "distorted"?
>
> Morten, you view ML 23-b as somehow "faked" but do you accept ML #10
> or #134? You may think these two letters are genuine but there are
> students who disagree. Who is right?
>
> Concerning ML23-b, you write that it contains " 'careless' - remarks
> on races and sub-races." But are the remarks actually careless?
>
> I don't find the remarks to be "careless" when you view them in the
> context of all of the theosophical teachings.
>
> Again, you write:
>
> "A true MASTER would have (to a certain degree a least) forseen
> these - racist - tendencies, issues and historical events AND
> secured - either - that the letter wasn't made public - so no
> misunderstandings would have ar(a)isen . . . . - or the Master would
> have known that the letter would be made into a forgery - and then
> rested in peace !"
>
> But the point Morten is: is your assumption really true? You are
> entitled to entertain this opinion but is your assumption the only
> valid one?
>
> Master KH never claimed to be all-knowing or infallible. He says
> this more than once in the MLs. Yet you are assuming he should have
> looked into the future, saw..., etc. etc.
>
> You also write:
>
> "The reason why H.P. Blavatsky didn't interfer on this letter being a
> fake was, that karma, time and circumstances didn't allow this to
> happen."
>
> Okay, I guess this is one possibility if you make and accept 3 or 4
> related assumptions.
>
> But HPB's writings on races seem to contain very SIMILAR ideas to
> what KH writes in ML-23b. Following your previous reasoning, could
> not one speculate that HPB's writings have been tampered with? Or
> somehow faked?
>
> Morten, you also mention Mr. Leadbeater:
>
> ". . . C.W. Leadebeaters - clearly fake 6th subrace version in his
> book - 'Man Whence how and Whither' "
>
> I am somewhat surprised by your use of the words: CLEARLY FAKE.
>
> What happened to your admonitions to use the "the '7 keys'" and
> use "a spiritual sense of mind"? If Nicholas Weeks wrote something
> like that about Alice Bailey, I can imagine you would write a few
> emails protesting his "literalness". But you seem to have no problem
> labelling something Leadbeater wrote as CLEARLY FAKE. Strange.....
>
> Then back to your question:
>
> "Do you know what the exact year was when this letter first was made
> public - for real ?"
>
> But if this question was answered, could this in anyway change your
> mind that Mahatma Letter #23b was faked? Would knowing the exact
> year in anyway confirm or falsify your assumption about this letter?
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>