Theos-Talk Archives (October 2002 Message tt00067)

Hi Frank and all of you,

I think Frank is more close to the truth, than not in his below remarks,
although I am not sure that I would use the same words on all the issues.

But,...but... thanks Frank ! >:-)
It is nice to know, that others understand and value
important texts like the one referred to in the below.
I.e. the whole article at :
http://www.esotericastrologer.org/AABHPBHR.htm
or at my own humble website
http://home19.inet.tele.dk/global-theosophy/BLAVATSK.HTM

And Frank and all you readers who do you think was the teacher 'predicted'
by H. P. Blavatsky from the year 1975 and onward.
Or is the teacher late ???

Is the teacher a sufi ? OR Was the teacher a sufi ? OR Will the teacher be a
sufi ?
I ask because The Middle East seems to be sort of a deliberately or
plesantly 'ignored' issue or a 'put down area' on theosophy today in a great
number of theosophical organizations. And that even when Afghanistan got hit
by 'The Stars and Stripes'.
And when did any of you see a 'Muslim' at a theosophical meeting last time ?
Are the Muslim a scapegoat ?
Why ?
Why do they seldom come to the meetings at the pro-Bailey groups and other
groups ?
(Or am I mistaken here ?)

Peace to The Middle East !
Peace to the Whashington and New York areas !

Is the Theosophical logo with the Swastika not allowed by Theosophical
groups in Germany ?
Did the (perhaps) dead-letter German Theosophy change its outer form and
logo during or at the end of the second world war ?
What shape did it get ?

And With the words of Arjuna in the famous scripture The Bhagavad Gita I
finish off with:

"So did Pandu's Son behold
All this universe enfold
All its huge diversity
Into one vast shape, and be
Visible, and viewed, and blended
In one Body- subtle, splendid,
Nameless- th' All-comprehending
God of Gods, the Never-Ending
Deity!

But, sore amazed,
Thrilled, o'erfilled, dazzled, and dazed,
Arjuna knelt; and bowed his head,
And clasped his palms; and cried, and said:
Arjuna. Yea! I have seen! I see!
Lord! all is wrapped in Thee!
The gods are in Thy glorious frame! the creatures
Of earth, and heaven, and hell
In Thy Divine form dwell,
And in Thy countenance shine all the features "
(Bhagavad Gita in The famous "Sir Edwin Arnold" translation, about chapter
XI, v.13-15)
http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/ctg/bhaggita.htm

****************************************************************************
***************

"There in the body of the Gods of Gods,
the son Pandu then beheld the whole world
established in one, and separated into many groups.

Then he Dhananjaya, filled with amazement,
with his hair standing on end; bowed down
with his head, and, with joined palms, thus
adressed the God.

I see all the Gods, O God, in thy body,
as also hosts of various classes of beings: Brahma,
the Lord, seated on the lotus-seat, and all
Rishis and heavenly serpents."
(Bhagavad Gita by A. M. Sastry recommended by Vivekananda; also chapter XI,
v.13-15)



from
M. Sufilight with light and love....peace ..., peace ...





----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Reitemeyer" <dhyana@web.de>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 4:05 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Roerich against Bailey...!? NEW ?


> Morten writes:
> ....
> But, if, a teacher of the Wisdom tradition dies, or there is a gap in the
> teaching, what then? The interesting thing is, that the very gap is a part
> of the training. You may explain certain things to a child : shall we say
> teach her or him not to do certain things. Then you will pretend to go out
> of the house - and observe her or him. According to how well he/she has
> learned, so will he/she react. In this 'absence exercise', precisely the
> same thing happens to the teacher of Wisdom, though many are not conscious
> of it.
> ...
>
> Frank:
> Well said. If this axiom is true (as we both think) then neither the
> theosophists from Adyar after 1886 nor those from [Covina/]Pasadena after
> 1946 didn't grasped it.
>
> Morten:
> After the disappearance from the field of a teacher of Wisdom, the
followers
> will divide themselves into groups, in accordance with their strength and
> weaknesses. Some will assume control of others. They may be good or bad,
and
> this will be shown by their reaction to - the second teacher - when he/she
> arrives.
> If they realise he/she is their teacher, then they have merely been
> developing themselves and can mature. But if they have become atrophied,
> they will be too blind to recognize the Spirituality of the very teacher,
> for which appearance they have been prepared. They may attach themselves,
in
>
> Frank:
> True. How many theosophists have recognized the teacher of the last
quarter?
> W.Q. Judge was sceptical about our recent time and predicted that in the
> year 2000 there would not even 5 (five) theosophists remain the world
over!
> Also de Purucker believed that this messenger of the the last quarter of
the
> 20th Century will not be recognized by the theosophists - atrophie in
plain
> words!
> What do you think would people like Brian/Brigitte say if a teacher would
> reveal his occult status before her? (Despite the fact that he will hold
the
> rules, if he/she is a true one.
>
> Morten:
> Quite obviously the semi-blind among the people, during their
> 'waiting-period', will try to work out their own interpretation. They may,
> as have been done in the past, write books to explain what they have
> learned. This is the danger-point, because when a man/woman is accepted
as,
> say, a philosopher (of wisdom) because she/he has written a book
explaining
> a philosophy, he/she will not readily accept, that she/he only have been
> 'fumbling'. He/She has quite possibly become a prisoner of his/hers lower
> self. The self-conceit of the man/woman is now bound up with his/hers
> 'creation', the book or the method, which he/she has used to organise the
> fragments, which he/she has. He/she is probably or possibly lost - for the
> cause.
>
> Frank:
> That actually happened with many self-styled gurus within the TM: Besant,
> Leadbeater, Conger, Long...
>
> Morten:
> In order to break through this shell of accretions and fossilisations,
> the - second teacher - will tend to act in a different, perhaps in a
certain
> dramatically different manner, from the original one. This could happen,
to
> break the 'idols', which have been formed out of the thoughts, which were
> originally given.
>
> Frank:
> You've got it! That's the reason why so many theosophists have had
problems
> with Katherine Tingley. They were looking for a person fitting their
images
> and she broke it, although, to follow your words, she was the third
teacher.
> But perhaps in a certain way she was actually the second!? May it be?
>
> Morten:
> So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, not to
> support a system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in
> which the Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of
> ideas and movements. This seems important to understand and know about.
>
> Frank:
> Yeah! Hope the present Outer Heads in the various groups will read that!
If
> they would do what they pray they would cooperate and not like the Summer
> School 2000 in Berlin with PTS Radha Burnier present New Age trash and
> censor people who would have liked to explain what HPB's ideas were (O how
> unbrotherly!)
>
> Morten:
> When a system of teaching of wisdom is in a period of fallowness, because
> the one who propagated it is dead, then there comes a period of
stagnation.
> This period can last between 10 years, 15 years or more. In the time,
which
>
> Frank:
> With theosophists it lasts since several decades! But for the luck of them
> they are not aware of it! They think that this narcotic condition is a
> SPIRITUAL level!
>
> Morten:
> The blind may try to lead the blinder. This takes the form of assumption
of
> authority by those who were given some sort of authority in the original
> mandate. These are the people in the most dangerous position, because the
> longer they remain 'orphaned' the more strongly their lower self (or the
> three lower bodies) asserts it self.
>
> Frank:
> Yes. But the other side of the coin is, as you wrote in fact above, that
> this is a temptation, a test of moral strength.
> We know that only those ana only that is being tested what is fit for it,
so
> it is a great change for a soul striving to heaven.
>
> Morten:
> Imagine a group of people shipwrecked. They think there is no hope of
> rescue. They find a raft, and are glad. After a time more people come
along
> in a big boat. But the first people will not leave the raft, because they
> have become used to it. They may have convinced themselves, that it is
> actually a boat. (So it is to some philosophical or religious people
today.)
>
> Frank:
> That is the picture de Purucker gives in his "Dialogue" about the ULT.
Their
> founder Robert Crosbie knew two teachers, but the modern ULTer knows but
> one. And what about the others in the chain?
>
> Morten:
> To sink ecstasy in Wisdom is better than to sink Wisdom in ecstasy. The
>
> Frank:
> O, you don't like my pills? :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>