Theos-Talk Archives (September 2002 Message tt00099)

To Dalval: I have never left a message on this list before. You are responding on here to material I have left on another list. I do not know if everyone on here is on the other list, the Theosophy Study List, but somehow I doubt it, and this gives me a strange feeling (but that's o.k.) I was not intending to come on this list right now, as I wanted to study theosophy further, but I feel you are calling me to participate. I seem to have caused quite a stir on the Theosophy Study List.. I hope this does not happen here. It is not my intention. I have been studying this list for some time with the intention of eventually coming on here. If my material is ever offensive or if I start to make anyone feel uncomfortable with any of my messages, please let me know, as I am here to learn, just as you are. . I hope the message I am about to leave is not premature, and that learning will come even more alive for us all than it is already. This is a reply to a message you posted both here and on the Theosophy Study List.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Dalval. In response to your message of Sept. 5th." Re Basic Ideas and Basic Thought- "When we CONSCIOUSLY make bread with and for others and not for ourselves alone, everything will come into focus. If I am attentive to what I am doing and have the right motivation, possibilities are created that did not exist before. The symbol of bread has traditionally been used to represent certain sacred substance(s) a fully conscious human being can receive from nature, but to partake of such food by oneself makes no sense, as we are creatures of relationship. In response to your question, "What transcends either void or plentitude?" I am not trying to dispute the views of theosophy, but respond because the genuine sincerity of your message has touched me. I have studied to become a Mahayana Buddhist for many years, and so can try to answer this question from that perspective. Nothing transcends either void or plentitude according to Mahayana Buddhist teaching, as this religion teaches what is called "dependent origination", which means that all causes are connected and there is NO PRIMAL CAUSE. I do not know too much about theosophy. I came to this subject by chance as I joined Universal Seekers, a list I like very much, thinking to discuss Krishnamurti and not realizing most of the members were theosophists, but at times I have felt a great potential there (and here) and something very powerful. I have always found Madame Blavatsky's work quite interesting, and I now find it more valuable than ever, but if you examine her writings carefully, you will find much reference to a primal cause. For this reason, her teachings, which in some ways resemble Buddhism, are not similar to Mahayana teachings. One could perhaps make the case that because she was bringing Buddhist teachings to the West, she needed to couch them in Christian terms, but I would not go that far. In any case, she did good and interesting work, for which I personally am very grateful, but I have received a distinct and intense quality of eternalism both from her writings and the writings of many of her students which show an outlook that, if investigated fully, would not correspond with an objective view of physical reality. I only respond because your message was so genuinely sincere that it touched something in me. For a person, struggling to be active and develop further this eternalism could eventually emerge as a stumbling block that may need to be consciously acknowledged, honestly explored, and even grappled with before further development can proceed. In Mahayana Buddhism, the aim is to combine the understanding of emptiness (which does not mean that nothing really exists, but that nothing exists on its own side, independent of anything else) with the understanding of dependent origination (everything arises dependent on causes and conditions). When this realization is accomplished, liberation occurs. In a state of omniscience or infinity there is what Krishnamurti called "choiceless activity", but it could also be called "conscious movement" or "dance." In a moment of danger, it is not necessary to organize and then move, but rather, by movement, there is instant organization. I am willing to go into this subject further in the future and also will try to leave another message soon, responding to your message in more detail. In response to the question, "And where do those atoms and molecules and INTELLIGENCE come from?" To stay with an unanswered question is very inspirational. Questioning can open a certain doorway that nothing else can..I have much appreciated your message, and especially that you have used your own words and not the words of others to attempt to talk about something that is interesting and engaging to you. This is the quality of work that can help many people, as everything needs to be formulated and reformulated again and again according to ever changing conditions. This way learning does not crystallize into dogma and everything is infinitely new and the perfume of the early morning, when the dew is still on the flowers, is not lost to us. So, in this vein, I would like to end with a question of my own, "Is wonder a material or immaterial?" Wry


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