Theos-Talk Archives (July 2002 Message tt00241)

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
on
The Ocean Of Theosophy
by Robert Crosbie

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Chapter 1 == MAHATMAS and MASTERS

Note:--
Robert Crosbie, the Founder of The United Lodge of
Theosophists was for many years a devoted pupil of H. P.
Blavatsky and William Q. Judge.

The Ocean of Theosophy by Mr. Judge, was regarded as the
perfect condensation of H.P.B.'s great work, The Secret
Doctrine, and the best book to give students.

A study class in the OCEAN, for the education in the
fundamental teachings of Theosophy included questions and
answers, preserved in stenographic records. Much use has
been made of Mr. Crosbie's answers. This offers an
opportunity to come in touch with the Presence which
animates all true teachings of the Theosophical Movement.

Mr. Crosbie's replies were in all cases oral and
spontaneous, to provide a focus for thought. His was the
voice of devotion. His tone is not that of "speak by
authority", but by heart conviction of one who has proved
for himself the validity of what he had heard from the great
Teachers. His utterance is that of the disciple, who never
forgets that he is the pupil of a beloved, revered and great
Teacher.

It should be remembered that while the answers are not to be
taken as hard and fast definitions, nor as authoritative;
but may be used as explanations and applications of
Theosophy as related to the particular questions. The
student, being "the final authority" for himself, should not
accept any statement unless he himself perceives its truth.

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CHAPTER I THEOSOPHY AND THE MASTERS


Summary of Chapter I

THEOSOPHY generally defined. The existence of highly
developed men in the Universe. These men are the Mahatmas,
Initiates, Brothers, Adepts. How they work and why they
remain now concealed. Their Lodge. They are perfected men
from other periods of evolution. They have had various names
in history. Apollonius, Moses, Solomon, and others were
members of this fraternity. They had one single doctrine.
They are possible because man may at last be as they are.
They keep the true doctrine and cause it to reappear at the
right time.

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ANSWERS (Robert Crosbie)


Q. Why is it that Mr. Judge calls attention at once to
Masters in Chapter I of the "Ocean?"

A. Because without the fact of the existence of Masters as
men perfected in experience and wisdom, who are the
possessors and custodians of all Their experience through
past civilizations as well as this one, Theosophy would be
but a speculation instead of the truths as to Man and Nature
gained through observation and experience. Without such
Beings there could be no such knowledge as Theosophy.


Q. "Masters investigate all things and beings." Does this
imply that They did this in physical bodies?

A. To become a full and complete septenary being, physical
existence must be undergone and understood.


Q. Which is nearer the truth, our science or religion?
p.2

A. Neither is near the Truth, because both are based on
materialistic conceptions of Man and the Universe. What we
know as science and religion are antagonistic and have no
common basis, and their field of operation is extremely
limited and hence misleading. The Truth must show that true
science, religion and philosophy are complementary aspects
of the One Truth.


Q. Can one convey the truth to another ?

A. One can help another to see the truth in himself.


Q. How would one come into the realization of Masters as
being ideals and facts in Nature? Is not "fact" and "ideal"
a contradiction?

A. Facts and ideals are not contradictions because every
fact is the resultant of a preexisting ideal. Striving for
an ideal brings about the fact of its accomplishment.
Masters are facts in Nature, being the accomplishment of an
ideal striven for. They are ideals to those below Them who
recognize that They are facts, and follow the path They
show.


Q. Is there a difference in degree between a Master and a
Nirmanakaya?

A. A Nirmanakaya is one who having reached the goal refuses
its fruition, but may remain on earth as a Master. This he
may do in or out of a body, for the body is but a point of
contact with earthly concerns. If he leaves the body
entirely, he retains every other principle but the kamic,
which has been crushed out beyond resurrection, and remains
a member of that Invisible Host which ever protects and
watches over Humanity as the Karma of the latter permits.


Q. It is said that the germ of all powers of the Masters is
in every being. How does this "square up" with the fact that
divinity is acquired? The statement is made that man is
essentially perfect. Is it not true that we are gods, but
have lost the consciousness of it?

A. The mistake here made by the questioner is in
p.3
the assumption that "Divinity" means the same as the One
Spirit. The "germ" is the "One Spirit." It contains the
potentiality of growth in every being, and growth is
acquired. The power to learn is not the learning. Effort has
to be made. It is true that we are gods in essence-in
"germ"-- and that from that germ we have developed many
powers and much knowledge on higher planes; but what good
are they to us here, if we have lost consciousness of the
fact? The Masters have regained and maintained that
consciousness in full


Q. It speaks of Masters having certain powers. They could
not use those powers if They did not know how to use them,
could They?

A. Masters use all their powers. To have a power and not use
it for good is to lose it. To use it for evil is also to
lose it in the long run, for by such use, conditions are
produced in the individual that prevent any use and bring
about an atrophy. Indeed, that is the case with all of us.
In earlier races we had many powers; we misused them and
produced the conditions, mental, moral, and social, that
exist today and hamper us. W.Q. J. once said at the
conclusion of an article: "Arise, O Atlanteans, and undo the
errors of the past !"


Q. Will the Philosophy always remain unfathomable?

A. If it is a recorded Philosophy it is not unfathomable,
for it comprises a statement of principles, together with
illustrations of their applications and workings universally
and particularly. The real meaning of the word "Philosophy"
is "love of wisdom;" esoterically, "The Wisdom of Love," or
Compassion. That can neither be recorded nor have any
limits. The sentence speaks of "knowledge" as being
unfathomable, which might be understood as infinite
extensibility.


Q. Can we gauge spiritual progress intellectually ?

A. Spirit alone can understand spirituality. Intellects are
but "weighing-machines", with as many standards of weight as
there are so-called intellects.
p.4


Q. It speaks (page 5) of the Masters always making history,
and that the visible heroic figures in the successive dramas
may have been nothing more than Their puppets. If this is
true how can we know when we are acting, or when we are
acted upon? Are not these men made use of by the Adepts and
Masters?

A. Yes, consciously or unconsciously. When consciously it is
doing for another what the other cannot do. When
unconsciously it is when the nature and the Karma of the one
so used permits. It does not interfere with the integrity of
the individual; it stimulates him to use his highest
faculties. With our present acquired nature and defects,
there is more likelihood of our being acted upon by the evil
than by the good. We need to be able to determine what is
really good and what not; then we will be true actors.


Q. Can the Masters "do for another what he can not do?" That
seems contrary to the assertion of the "Third
Fundamental"-self -induced and self-devised efforts?

A. It is not; because in such cases the individual must have
advanced by self-induced and self-devised efforts to that
point where his whole nature affords a point of contact with
Higher and Wiser Beings, which contact not only enables him
to use his own powers and knowledge more strongly and wisely
but also supplies the right direction along which his
self-induced and self-devised efforts may further proceed.
When he is used unconsciously, his nature must be
self-induced and self-devised to make him a possible
instrument, and the stimulation of his qualities opens up
further avenues for self-induced and self-devised efforts,
till he, in turn, becomes a Conscious Agent. The whole
course of occult teaching is suggestion, based upon right
knowledge.


Q. What is the meaning on page 2-in speaking of "the rule of
Law which is inherent in the whole"?
p.5

A. Law is not to be understood as something externally
imposed upon us by any being or beings, but as due to our
own ideas and actions as the creative sources and causes of
the effects that we feel. There fore Law is inherent in
ourselves.


Q. On page 12-it speaks of " true doctrine' as being
"impacted in the imperishable center of man's nature." Does
that mean as memory?

A. It is not memory in the sense of the word as we use it.
It is all that we are, in every one of our constituents, by
reason of our past experience and its application,
regardless of whether we remember the experience or not.


Q. Do the affairs of the present appear to the Masters as
new experiences, or do They see the future as it will be?

A. They have been through all experiences, and can judge of
the future by the past and present. We must not think that
our experiences in this are different from those in any
other age. The material surroundings- the ideas, no
doubt-were very different from ours; but human feelings have
always been the same, no matter what the form might be that
excites them. The Masters do not regard the character of the
external stimuli, but the effect produced on the human
being's inner nature. Experience is what one feels.


Q. But the "Soul" is distinct from any experiences?

A. Surely, if it were not, it could not experience. The Soul
is distinct from its experiences in the sense that it is the
sum-total of its experiences, just as a house is different
from the materials put into it. The Soul is the resultant of
all its experiences; the house is not any of the materials,
but is an ideal made up of the materials. We idealize our
experiences. Our experiences are worthless unless they give
us a basis in ideal. Soul is the idealization of
experiences-the idealization of Spirit, or Consciousness. We
move from ideal to ideal. The spirit is constantly
constructing ideals until it finally realizes that all
ideals are comprehended in the One. It just means that all
is Consciousness and Spirit.
p.6


Q. I have always thought of "Soul" as a sort of abstraction.

A. It is strange that we think of the Real part of us as the
unreal. There is That in us which sees, hears, feels-quite
irrespective of body, quite irrespective of mind-the Real
Man. Buddhi is the Immortal Ego. Buddhi cannot be described.
It is feeling, the accumulated experiences-all our
experience is in feeling. Manas is the Higher Mind, that
part of Buddhi which is in action; the creative power of
Buddhi. There is a continuing line of experience as
Perceivers-all which that perception comes.


Q. In the "Voice of Silence" it speaks of the Mind as the
"Slayer of the Real." Why is that?

A. The "mind" is just a "lens" through which we look, and
according as we have made the glass we look through do we
see the world. We see everything reflected in the mirror of
the mind-it is a reflection al ways-reflection colored and
distorted by our own thoughts and feelings-characterized by
the mirror we have. Anything that is said to us is always
mixed up with the experiences we have already had,
consequently is not true unless our minds are true. Images
are reflected on the retina reversed, the same as they are
in a mirror, but we have learned to correct the reversions
psychically and unconsciously. That corrects the physical
lens for external reflections. But we need a metaphysical
lens that will correct mental reflections. That can be
brought about by metaphysical concepts based upon the
eternal verities, based upon the essential nature of all
things.


Q. Is not the thing for which man is striving what we would
call perfection? Is that not the goal, or to become a
Mahatma?
p.7

A. The object of all evolution is not individual salvation,
but that the whole shall be lifted up, raised to higher and
higher degrees. A Master is One far, far ahead of the rest.
He became a Master by doing service, and now remains with
all His glorious powers devoted to the service of n only
Humanity, but all the kingdoms of Nature. of us who have in
us the possibility of b Masters in time, should imitate
Their example.


Q. On page 7 of the "Ocean" it speaks of the existence of
those Wise Men, and that They probably exist today. Surely
there is no doubt of it! Why was the word "probably" put in
there ?

A. The word "probably" was used in order to show the
ordinary reader, with Western ideas, that the evidence of
the existence of such Beings in the past points to the
strong probability of Their existence today; to avoid any
appearance of dogmatism, and to call for a decision on the
part of the reader- to arouse thought.


Q. "Ocean of Theosophy" has a tone of settled conviction,
and appears to be authoritative. Is it to be so accepted ?

A. As Mr. Judge said himself, in the Preface, "The tone of
settled conviction which may be thought to pervade the
chapters is not the result of dogmatism or conceit, but
flows from knowledge based upon evidence and experience." It
is not conceit nor assumption of authority, because it is
only a handing on of what has been known before.


Q. In speaking of a true basis, do you think it would be
possible for a Theosophical society to have one for the
promulgation of the true teachings of the Masters, without
the Three Fundamental Propositions of the Secret Doctrine P
Could it be taught without these ?

A. A working knowledge of the Three Fundamentals is
essential for an understanding of all that follows
p.8
in the Secret Doctrine. One might be able to repeat all that
is written in the Secret Doctrine and elsewhere, and have no
real understanding of the Philosophy. There are many in that
position. The Secret Doctrine says in regard to the Three
Fundamental Propositions, "Once that the reader has gained a
clear comprehension of them and realised the light which
they throw on every problem of life, they will need no
further justification in his eyes, because their truth will
be to him as evident as the sun in heaven."


Q. The number of Masters is not augmented during the
Kali-Yuga, is it?

A. As a Master is a perfected septenary being, and men in
general are far from perfect, though having a septenary
nature, there can be no absolute barrier in any age to the
attainment of perfection, or that degree of wisdom and power
which marks a Master. In the present age no doubt the
difficulties are very great, but so also are the
opportunities. It is safe to say that every civilization
adds to Their number.


Q. How does such an age come about? It is some times called
the "Foundation" age; why is that? And why is its "momentum"
spoken of, and how can much be done in it?

A. Kali-Yuga means "Dark Age"-that is, "spiritually dark".
It is the culmination of man's descent into, and
identification of himself with, gross matter. It represents
and contains the mingling of different lines of individual
and collective thought and action (individuals, nations and
races) necessarily antagonistic because of personal
selfishness, due to a loss of the knowledge of spiritual
identity. Nature's processes are first, homogeneity; then
differentiation; then amalgamation- when all the
differentiations are mixed together; then precipitation-or
separation of the true ideas from the false. This is
Kali-Yuga, during which a choice between true
p.9
and false ideas must be made. It is the "Foundation Age"
because the experiences gained through the Golden Age, the
Silver Age, and the Bronze Age, become crystallized in the
Iron Age. Then all the "momentum" of these ages is there,
and as it is the turning point, it forms the "foundation"
for subsequent progress.
We have been descending step by step through the previous
ages. All the efforts made and experiences gained during
those vast periods have to be conjoined and brought into
play in controlling and rightly using our terrestrial
powers. We cannot do anything against Kali-Yuga, but we can
do everything in it.


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