Theos-Talk Archives (July 2002 Message tt00192)

I haven't been there yet but I was really interested in your question on
freedom.
I have read a fair bit of K's stuff and have come to understand that freedom
seems to come with understanding.
I think K tried hard to get his audience to intuitively get what he was
trying to say because it is something felt and understood on that level.
If I understand what he meant by freedom then it seems to me that I have
more choices about what I do. 
If a person who understood K got on that bus, it would be by choice and with
the understanding that he/she got on that bus for certain reasons and the
event of getting on the bus would have a deliberate content. 
If a person who didn't understand got on the bus then he/she could be said
to be part of that event because there was no understanding that there was
an alternative way of being on that bus and the act of getting on the bus
would not be deliberate in the sense that K means. 



great website and very informative, thank you.

I read the Krishnamurti profile on the home page and
was particularly interested in the following sentence:

"Declaring that his only concern was to ‘set man
absolutely, unconditionally free’, he sought to
liberate man from his deep conditioning of sorrow,
fear, violence, and selfishness."

Although Krishnamurti's goal may have been to set men
free from their own inhibitions I doubt a man can ever
be "unconditionally" free. Can a man be free from the
economic system he finds himself? Can a man be free
from the social conventions of the community in which
he resides? Can a man escape from the political system
that surrounds him, whether it be a democracy or a
dictatorship?

If you consider the notion of the Monad unconditional
freedom seems more and more unattainable. Although I
am a Monad when I enter a bus, for instance, I am part
of that bus and have temporarily sacrificed my
freedom. When the bus is in motion I am completely at
the will of the bus and I have sacrificed my freedom
to the bus. Yes I can get off at any time but when the
bus is travelling at 100km/hr I would be most wise to
give up the ideal of unconditional freedom.
There is no sacrifice in an act that is done deliberately and with
understanding of why it is being done. It would be understood before getting
on the bus that physical laws that acted as restrictions were part of the
event of being on that bus. We agree to restrictions on our physical
activity when we participate in a physical event. K says it helps us to cope
and accept this if we understand that such is the case.
It is like folk who blame things outside themselves for things that go wrong
in their lives. If you want to get off a bus that is in motion then broken
bones at the least, is to be expected. Unconditional freedom seems to me to
be a state of mind, not a fact in physical life. Physical life becomes
influenced by such a state of mind but the physical laws are understood and
accepted as necessary to live in the physical world. Sorrow and suffering
comes when we desire to do things that are not compatible either with
physical laws or with our conscience. I know when I have done something
incompatible with either of them and so I am able to think about it and try
to do better next time. Seems to me that is what K wanted us to consider so
that we could grow to be freer and thereby accepting of what our lot in this
life is meant to teach us.
Cheers
Bee


So all this rambling appears to be quite pedantic and
well really that is all it is. But we have to be sure
that when we are talking about freedom we are never
talking about absolute and unconditional freedom.
There will always be conditions because we are
entities that exist relative to other entities. This
in itself eliminates the notion of uncondtional
freedom.

mic


--- ramadoss@gbronline.com wrote:
>
*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~
> Through the joint effort of the Krishnamurti
> Foundations worldwide, a new 
> Website wholly dedicated to the writings, talks, and
> discussions of 
> Krishnamurti is now available to the entire world.
> Visit 
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> site each month and 
> translations in Spanish are being prepared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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