Theos-Talk Archives (July 2002 Message tt00072)

Bart:
A more important question is: was the slaughter of the family a crime,
or an act of war? Clearly Israel considered it to be an act of war, just

Frank:
That means that the holocaust on the Jews in Germany was according to your
standards also not a crime, but an act of war since the Jews declared war of
Germany several times beginning in 1933?

Bart:
Explain these acts.

Frank:
Bart, I try. You say that the slaughter of the family was not a crime as
Israel considered it to be an act of war.

Bart:
I said nothing of the sort. All I said is that there is disagreement as
to whether it should be classified as a crime or an act of war, and
Israel considered it to be an act of war. At no point did I say what I
considered it to be. Therefore, you are starting off from a false
premise.
---------------

Frank answers:
OK, you did not say that it was an act of war, you only said that to Israel
it is an act of war.
But that does not change the moral content of the question I asked and which
I insert anew and to which you not answered but with a counter question:

Frank:
My question is: Is the same standard of judging applicable to a similar case
(if it be), when the Jews were the victims in the Third Reich? And if not,
where is the difference in both cases from a theosophical, ethical point of
view?

Bart:
And I am asking what is this "similar case"? Can you show me what
documents or claims there are by Jews in Germany stating that their goal
was the destruction of Germany and the destruction of the German people,
as there were in the Jordanian and Palestinian communities?

Frank:
My point was not whether "Jews in Germany" as you say (isn't it a racist
term as the Jews are no race??) wanted the destruction of Germany, my point
was when Israel considered the slaughter as an act of war if then the same
moral code is to be used when the Jews declared war on Germany and Hitler's
reaction was the lost of the civil rights of the Jews?
Could Hitler's persecution be regarded as an act of war, since the Jews
declarded that war?

So I don't wrote of the Germans Jews and you are also starting off from a
false premise. I was writing about those Jews (or that claimes to be) who
are
known as the Zionists or the "invisible government" (as Theodore Roosevelt
stated in 1912 as well as in Germany the very competent and patriotic Jew
Walther Rathenau who was assassinated for that revelation).

I have before me in my archives the "Daily Express" of Friday, March 24,
1933 with the
headline:

"JUDEA DECLARES WAR ON GERMANY"
"Jews Of All The World Unite In Action"

The longer article begins thus: "ALL Israel is uniting in wrath against the
Nazi onslaught on the Jews in Germany. Adolf Hitler, swept into power by an
appeal to elemental patriotism, is making history of a kind he least
expected. Thinking to unite only the German nation to race consciousness he
has roused the whole Jewish people to a national renaissance. The appearance
of the swastika symbol of a new Germany has called forth the Lion of Judah,
the old battle symbol of Jewish defiance. Fourteen million Jews dispersed
throughout the world have banded together as one man to declare war on the
German persecutors of their co-religionists.... Germany is a heavy borrower
in foreign money markets, where the Jewish influence is considerable.... The
old and reunited people of Israel are rising with new and modern weapons to
fight this age old battle with their persecutors."

So a Jewish source attests that:

1. the international money market is under Jewish control and

2. that these regard themselves as the people of Israel which is a gross
manipulation of the real, theosophical understanding, as with Israel all
humankind is meant and not a single race alone.

3. that this fight against the swastika is an old battle (since Atlantis
times?)

4. that Hitler reunited these people who claim to be the Israelits despite
the fact that this "history" is stolen from Aryan sources and was never the
real history of that people who came from India and settled in Syria much
South of what today is the territory of "Israel".

But going back to your new question of "Jews in Germany" (why not "German
Jews" if they are not a separated race??):

The Jewish historian Jacob Toury writes that many Jewish authors were openly
supporting anti-semitism and gives following names:

1. Aron Briman (= Dr. Justus), editor of the Judenspiegel (Jews mirror)
2. Elias Johann Cohn, buddy of Stoecker
3. Dr. Morris Christoph de Jonge, co-worker of the Kreuz paper and editor of
the Hannoversche Post
4. Dr. Paul Limann from the Dresdner and Leipziger Nachrichten
5. August Maass, publisher of anti-semitical pamphlets
6. Simon Michael May, editor of the Reichsboten from Mr Stoecker
7. Dr. Morgenstern
8. Nathan Wilhelm Schlesinger
9. Joseph Varnhagen, publisher of the anti-semitical "Geldmonopol" (money
monopoly) in Kassel

When the Levites decided to let the "prophecy" in the bible come true for
their new 3rd Reich in the middle of the 19.th Century, the anti-semitism
was installed in both Germany by the Jews Karl Marx alais Mardochai (paid by
Rothschild, also "The Hebrew Talisman" mention the Rothschilds) and Wilhelm
Marr, and in Russia with the Chibat Zion, Friends of Zion and the
persecution of the Russian Jews, to bring the Jews "back home" to Palestine.

The known Jew and expert Dietrich Bronder says that the word anti-semitism
was created by the Jewish actor Wilhelm Marr who started in 1863 editing the
radical Judenspiegel (Jews mirror), but the paper has had not much success.
A decade later in 1873 he wrote the pamphlet "Der Sieg des Judentums über
das Germanentum" (The victory of Jewry over Germanism). In turn, German
authors wrote that the Germanic culture should not die and must defended
against the Jews. In turn, the Jews reacted etc. etc. In 1895 the Jewish
Society "Centralverein" spoke of a "war" between the Germans and the Jews.
Beginning with provocations both sided were pushed and hate was growing.
Was this part of a longer plot with the aim Palestine?

To my understanding there is a similarity between the 3rd Reich of the
Levites of which they sentimentally dreamed of in the alleged Holy Land and
the 3rd Reich of the Nazis. If the Prussian sources were correct the Nazi
party was a Trojan horse of New York bankers and Hitler was the fulfiller of
an old dream. Without Hitler the modern Jews who did not believe in dead
letter interpretations of the bible would not have left their homeland. Many
German Jews were loyal and patriotic, many served as soldiers in WW I and
many died for Germany, many were in top state positions under Bismarck and
Wilhelm.

Seems that to the insiders who planned their 3rd Reich a war was necessary
to change the political scene into a direction where they would be able to
bring the Jews to Palestine.

Frank:
This is a serious question to me. Very often one can see that equal things
which happen in human history are judged different, depending of the
belonging to an ideology, to a creed, to a race and it is not judged from
the unity of life which makes not such discrimination.

Bart:
Pushing an old lady out of the way of a moving car is not the same
thing as a pushing an old lady into the path of a moving car, in spite
of the claims of the advocates of "moral equivalency".

Frank:
That is not my kind of moral code. To me both examples are violence.
HPB in explaining Aryan thought says that it is always the motive and not
the result what counts.
Your argument gives me the impression as if to you only the physical side
counts.