Theos-Talk Archives (June 2002 Message tt00198)

Hi Bart and all,

My remarks to Bart is inserted the below using '****' stars while starting and finishing.

(I suggest us to try to keep the numbers of question in a single email downa little.)



from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bart Lidofsky" <bartl@sprynet.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Mahatmas and Kings...and glamour...


> Morten Sufilight wrote:
> > Well Bart I have difficulties in agreeing with your below answer.
> > 
> > You bart wrote:
> > " A current definition of terrorism is military attacks specifically
> > > directed at non-military personnel during a time when there is no state
> > > of war. According to this definition, the attack on the World Trade
> > > Center was terrorism, while the attack on the Pentagon was an act of
> > > war. "
> > 
> > Allright Bart. But, that is just another definition. I stick to the oneI have made.
> 
> And I can define Morton Sufilight writing on this board as terrorism.
> That doesn't make it terrorism. If words are used without agreement of
> definition, then the words become meaningless, and the message
> containing them becomes nonsense.

****My answer to Bart: But Bart with all respect, you could also be definedas a terrorist writing on this board. That doesn't make it terrorism.
I of course agree with - that - statement of yours.
And partly because the politicians in the United Nations can't agree on a definition on the word 'terrorism' we have the present situation af disagreements on the very same issue. But if the countries with economical and social power - like today - won't share their cultural and social-religious power with the rest of the planet, -- then only trouble will come to an information society like this with fast transport possibilities, sattelite TV, Internet, Phone etc. The leading countries on this planet should show leadership through - a concept of 'learning and helping', and not through a concept of 'giving cultural orders and cultural dictates' (The american or western 'fat' lifestyle etc.). Well, that is just my ´humble view.****
> 
> > A view, although I could be claimed wrong, is: To call something an 'act of 
> > war' like USA did, was just rethoric use, so to have an excuse to make - USA 
> > warfare - in OTHER countries (Afghanistan was the first country) acceptable 
> > to the public and other countries populations. (What evil will come next?) 
> 
> There HAS been precedent, as when the United States declared war on the
> pirates of Tripoli and all countries protecting them back in the 19th
> Century.

****My answer to Bart: Well, that is just making the picture of USA worse. And Pirates (robber) are no good either.****
> 
> > Bart ask in the below email on the issue food-terrorism :
> > "Can you give a specific example of this?"
> > 
> > My answer to Bart:
> > Picture a schoolyard. In one corner of the schoolyard we have a group of kids 
> {analogy ommitted for brevity}
> 
> > This should be an anology on the rich (fat) western countries, the poor 
> > coffeproducing countries, and Theosophical nerds. (I did cut it short, 
> > beacuse of the size of the email.)
> > And Bart, that is what I call food-terrorism.
> 
> A) You are assuming that governments and corporations are the same
> thing.
****My answer to Bart: Not so. But, I claim, that they are closely connected. As every political interested would know, that they truely are !****
> B) You don't explain why the poor countries are producing
> soil-destroying coffee rather than food, with crop rotation (which is
> why there is so much famine, in Africa especially).
****My answer to Bart: No. I agree. But, that doesn't either explain the present environmentally destructive agricultural production of USA and other western-like countries.****
> C) You don't explain why, although many "fat boys" are trying to give
> their food to the "poor boys", the food is somehow not reaching the
> "poor boys." 
****My answer to Bart: No. But, a lot of 'fat boys' use TV, newspapers etc. to paint a picture of themselves doing a great job while they infact are not doing so. They are just promoting THEIR lifestyle and THEIR ideas through the use of power and by not being fair, but rather corrupt.****
> 
> > Just shortly after the 'world trade bombs' feel - USA was suddenly busy 
> > paying their heavy debt to the United Nations programmes.
> > One wonders why ?
> 
> I just did an Internet search to see if I could find a cite for this. I
> could not. Can you give me some information (preferably a cite, but if
> you can just give me enough information to find the cite on my own, that
> would be fine)?
***My answer to Bart: 
> 
> > You deleted the following in my last email:
> > "The Jews can't live alone. The Palaestinians can't live alone. The USAcan't 
> > live alone. The Germans can't live alone. The Afghans can't live alone.The 
> > India can't live alone. The Persia can't live alone. And each and every 
> > country has to respect the other not just by words, but in reality by their 
> > respectíve actions. And in the present information society, this is getting 
> > pretty clear.
> > Especially the USA, Germans and the Afghans will have to live with respect 
> > for each other.
> > ***The same respect has to be created for the persons at Theos-talk."
> > 
> > So Bart - let us show some respect, right. Let us see USA and western 
> > countries show some repsect instead of being (religious and) cultural 
> > imperialistic bullies. But other countries should also show respect.
> 
> I attack your ideas, or at least the expression of your ideas, not you.
> I believe you are intelligent enough to see the difference.

****My answer to Bart: Well, that was an interesting statement. I believe in Neti Neti. I.e. ParaBrahman.****
> 
> > Bart wrote in the below email:
> > "Do you think those people are so stupid and easily led that they would
> > > abandon their culture and religions for products? Would you? Do you
> > > think that you're better than they are? "
> > 
> > My answer to Bart:
> > Again it is important that other countries show each other respect. USAand 
> > other western countries should show other countries respect, while exporting 
> > their so called goods.
> > 
> > First question: Yes ! Because they get tempted, or are ignorant of their own 
> > culture, or think that it is part of their culture to do certain western 
> > actions. Children in an information society are easily mislead, and that is 
> > what is going on. That is why the $ (i.e. greed) has so much power, (but 
> > sadly today so very little moral and respect).
> > Take the issue 'Coca Cola' for instance. It is not healthy and it should in 
> > fact be thrown out of production, but it is allowed in several countries. 
> 
> Why should it be thrown out of production? Under what authority should
> it be thrown out of production? Who, other than the makers, has the
> ability to throw it out of production? From where does this privilege or
> right come?

****My answer to Bart: A lot of questions. 1. It is NOT healthy, and it is even coming from USA - a political leading country on this Planet. 2. The Authorithy of ParaBrahman. 3. ParaBrahman or the law of Karma. 4. From "within life" or another 'place' ! (And "within life" is not a village in USA!)****
> 
> The United States was built on the principle that the government has no
> rights; only the people have rights. The government has privileges that
> the people choose to give it. The government may not touch the rights of
> the people except to adjudicate when the right of one person interferes
> with the right of another. Unlike most European countries, where the
> governments derive their rights from some deity, and anything the people
> can do is considered a privilege. That difference is probably key to why
> the Theosophical Society was started in the United States.

****The Political Governing principle of USA is corrupt. You can't worship the $ and God. You have to make a choice ! And you can take that to the BANK !****
> 
> > Coca Cola advertises with the use of storytelling - and promotes the 
> > american lifestyles by this advertising. Other companies are doing 
> > the same. (That is cultural imperialism - and also religious imperialism. 
> > Hidden or not.)
> 
> Companies are not governments. 

****No. But governments listen to the trade-lobby. Why ? They are often corrupt while they are not putting RELIGION as something of outmost importance.
A spiritual claim of mine is: If you se a leader with a following. You can be almost certain that he/she is corrupt. Because if the leader was to tellthe Truth, the followers would hate him/her.****
> 
> > The american lifestyle with Las Vegas, excessive Porn, kids with guns etc. - 
> 
> Why do you use "Las Vegas"? If it is the "American Lifestyle", then why
> is it limited to a single city? And what is wrong with kids with guns?
> In most of the world, children learn to use weapons safely to get food.
> And what is wrong with pornography? Is sex evil? Or have you been bilked
> by the fundamentalists of the cult of the failed messaiah?

****A lot of questions. My answers to Bart and the readers are: 
1. Las Vegas is just an example and a good one I think. 
2. This lifestyle has not been mentioned to belong to a single city. Where did you get that strange/silly idea from ? 
3. Their MINDS ! - And I disagree with this sentence of yours Bart : "In most of the world, children learn to use weapons safely to get food." I thinkit is wrong manner of putting it forward. The problem is, a lot of kids doesn't learn, that God or ParaBrahman really is. They learn to do all kinds of bad actions instead - heavily governed by the massmedia and anti-religious or fake-religious politicians. Am I right ? 
4. I talked about excessive Porn, i.e. the damageing kind. Sex as an eroticterm is for the animal man or woman. The spiritual beginner can (i.e. 'can') use it to climb the spiritual ladder of development with.****

> 
> > Second question: I am fortunately not ignorant or at least that ignorant.
> > Third: No, certainly not. Why should I think so ? Some of us do really care.
> 
> Your answers to the first and second questions belie your answer to the
> third. 

****Can you explain that further?****
> 
> > You see I consider the Security Council to be something analogically similar 
> > to the Jews council the Sanhedrin, which was said to have sentenced Jesus 
> > Christ to the death.
> 
> On a Saturday. And NO Sanhedrin would meet on a Saturday. And the
> requirements for a death sentence are quite specific, and had nothing to
> do with any of the crimes that the failed messiah was supposed to have
> been accused. Of course, followers of that cult decided that my
> great-grandfather was the one who killed him, and killed my
> great-grandfather in a pogrom. 

****But Bart and you readers can't you see the analogical view in it ? The Security Council of The United Nations has analogical similarities with theSanhedrin which is said to have sentenced Jesus Christ to the death. The lack of cultural respect (i.e. respect for the Middle East) seems an obviousanalogical issue. I claim that the present Pope-congress of USA, which paytheir respect to the same church a week before their slaughters on innocent people are corrupt - and are NOT showing any spiritual or even so-called political leadership - talking in Earth terms.****
> 
> Nothing scares a European more than a Jew with a gun.

****Nothing scares USA and western lifestyle countries more than one or more REAL honest religious persons , who puts God/ParaBrahman as more important than the dollar $ or greedy-trade !****

****One should know them on their FRUITS. Or where Christ is - the vulturesgather.****
> 
> Bart Lidofsky
> 

****Your humble friend Morten Sufilight.****
>  
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