Theos-Talk Archives (May 2002 Message tt00167)

May 15 2002


Re: converting and trying to convince

Dear Ramprakash:


Many thank RP

That is so good and valuable.

Enjoyed reading it again.

Dallas

-----Original Message-----
From: ult_blr [mailto:ult_blr@vsnl.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 11:44 PM
To:
Subject: Re: God

Ragel's wonderful advise is the best approach. You cannot nor
ever should attempt to convert others to your view point. The
more you try the more the other mind will revolt.

Instead of trying to tell others of Theosophy when their minds
are not open would be a mistake. In such cases silence, as Ragel
says, is the best approach.

Theosophy is best propogated not so much by words--though that is
necessary on appropriate occassions--as exemplification of its
principles in life which will have a salutary effect on others.

HPB gives Tsong-Kha-Pa's teaching "From a Lamrin Compendium" on
the subject of various levels of understanding in humans. This
ought to make us all charitable.

"Arguments, from considerations why Buddha's teaching should be
explained on three planes ; ie., intended alike for the lowest,
the mean or the middle, and the highest capacities, since each
man must believe according to his mental qualifications.

"1. Men of vulgar capacities must believe, that there is a
(personal) God, and a future life, and that they shall earn
therein the fruits of their work in this, their earthly life.

"2. Those who have an average intellectual capacity, besides
admitting the former position, must know, that every compound
thing is perishable, that there is no reality in things ; that
every sin is pain, and that deliverance from pain or bodily
existence is blisss.

"3. Those of the highest capacities must know, in addition to the
above enumerated dogmas, that from the lowest form to the Supreme
Soul, nothing is existent by itself. Neither can it be said that
it will continue always (eternally) or cease absolutely, but that
everything exists by a dependent or causal concatenation.

"With respect to practice, those of vulgar capacity are content
with the exercise of belief (blind faith) and the practice of the
ten virtues (Ten Commandments). Those of average intellectuality,
besides beleiving, by reason of endeavour to excel in morality
and wisdom. Those of the highest capacities, besides the former
virtues, will exercise the six transcendental virtues (practical
Occultism). (Theosophical Article and Notes, p. 198).
----- Original Message -----
From: J.R. Ragel <mailto:jrragel@hotmail.com>
To: study@blavatsky.net <mailto:study@blavatsky.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: [bn-study] Re: God

Larry, my good brother
I come from a similar background as you, though the Mormons I
have been around are the Reorganized Church, rather than just the
Church of Latter Day Saints. On the other side of my family they
are Catholics.
Whenever I'm around these folks I always have a great time. They
speak so well, nearly everything they say I agree with. "Jesus
is wonderful", "God is the most important thing", "Jesus loves
you". The finer points of their talks will get rather selfish,
and self involved, but such are the thoughts of many humans, on
many other subjects than religion.
Being good students, I'm sure we all can see the rather glaring
hidden truths in many of the exoteric teachings of the big
religions. You have only to look, and there they are; again,
however, the finer points getting a little gritty as they go.
But in a general way, the truth is very apparent, and they all
mean well.
The teachings of Jesus (that wonderful young Master) are
especially strong. So strong, that an entire religion has been
erected around the few tidbits he gave forth in his few years.
Sadly, the followers of Christianity are often times separatists,
feeling that their way is the only way. I once heard a Christian
use a great analogy to attempt to decry the other religions of
the world. She said: "We are all not spokes on the same wheel."
How could one use such are truthful analogy in such a wrong way?
Such is the place of many of the race currently. Using the best
knowledge and thoughts to say the very opposite of those thoughts
and knowledge.
My man, say even less than you have been. Maybe say nothing.
Less is more, nearly always, and especially in such situations.
Let your sister-in-law speak, agree with her if she needs it,
because in this scenario it's far more about her than it is about
you. She's re-affirming her faith and her beliefs (under the
guise of conversation regarding your faith and beliefs), and
those things are the best she is capable of. And what does it
matter anyway? She will know in time, maybe not in this
lifetime, maybe not in twenty; but she will know. Because there
is no religion higher than truth. And the truth will always be
there.
Say less. Stop speaking altogether about such things. And in
guessing why you have chosen to not speak anymore about it
perhaps she will stumble on some small piece the thing for
herself. And maybe not, but it's still okay, and in so doing you
will have engaged in a pointless debate less; which will feel far
better for you.
No matter what, if you choose to continue along these lines with
your sister-in-law or not, we are with you, and we love you.
J.R.
P.S. My Catholic Grandmother (other side of the family) came into
my room one day, the last time I was home, and saw my copy of
Vol. 2 of the Secret Doctrine on my table. Before departing the
room she informed me that Blavatsky was a fraud, who tricked
people and took advantage of unsuspecting individuals. To which
I said "I love you".


_____

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