[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

RE: Dallas and Atma Revisited

Apr 25, 2002 04:52 PM
by dalval14

Thursday, April 25, 2002

Dear Bruce:

As for myself, I am unable to discuss those matters to which H P
B placed under seal. I mean her "esoteric instructions." She
asked that they not be publicized. I respect that.
Consequently, my thinking and such ideas and answers a I
generate, are based on what she taught in her published writings.
They make sense (to me) and are coherent. One might say that
these writings are the containers of that information which
serves to illuminate the virtuous life. And any act, feeling or
thought of viciousness or of selfishness transforms such "occult"
powers into their opposite: black magic. Have you read
Bulwer-Lytton's ZANONI , and the other book: A STRANGE STORY ?
Both are most helpful.

One of the things she emphasized was the clear distinction to be
made by the "deep" student between the Kamic (psychic) and the
Buddhic (TRUTH and WISDOM) aspect of Theosophy. Of course the
"deep" student is the MIND -- MANAS or the NOUS.

As embodied minds, immersed in this world of sense and of false
values, we are constantly having to look for the TRUE MEANING
under an overlay of personal opinions, customary attitudes,
suspicions, doubts and psychic, lower-self oriented concepts.

I like to employ the words: impersonal, universal, true,
benevolent, compassionate, brotherly as qualities that, if
rigorously used, enable us to employ our minds (nous) to
penetrate to the spiritual planes of Buddhi -- wisdom, and ATMA
UNIVERSAL TRUTH and REALITY. Those realms are not somewhere
outside of us, but are innate. The 7 "principles" of man
designate the potentials that each one has within.

I deem it true that the "gift" of Theosophy made by the Masters
of wisdom through H P B is a most valuable one, and will be a
pivotal point of importance for the rest of this evolutionary
period of our Earth. Looking perhaps, thousands of years into
the future, just as we look back to the time of Plato and the
Dialogs at the Academy, or of Jesus and the "Sermon on the
Mount." I would say that to know of these things and not use
them in our lives as guides and friends is an error. Our
incarnation now, so close to the time when the philosophy was
again publicized, makes our present life's choices most
important. If one reads the MAHATMA LETTERS carefully much of
what I say here, is to be seen recorded or 'implied' there. Why
would H P B or the Mahatmas be further away from us now than
then? Are we keeping them at "arms length?" If so how? Each one
has to answer that for themselves. It is said that the path of
the disciple becomes more difficult as he advances -- I think it
is only apparent. for, if one is determined to help others and
pass on what one has gained or understood, then the work becomes
joy and a pleasure, and "help" comes from unexpected areas -- an
idea, an intuition, an allegory, or a simile -- all these tend to
show me, we are never 'alone."

It is my concept that the psychic self generates the opinionated
selfishness based on flights of personal and isolated, selfish
fancy, which cannot be logically explained. They lack stability
and a goal that all can understand, also they lack coherence and
continuity. Confronted with the ultimate death of the present
personality, what is there of permanency and value in many of the
amusing things we do or devise to waste time? One can understand
why it is said that in many cases people live lives of "quiet
desperation," which is sometimes very noisy and distressing to

I ask myself what separates vice from virtue and arrive at the
concept that two things have contributed most heavily to them:

1.	The concept that there is a Personal God, who if placated and
praised, will occasionally and wilfully, violate his own laws of
justice and fairness to all, and give a special dispensation to
the wrong-doer. Forget about restitution or compensation for the
victims! Is that reasonable and fair? (I know it gives a
livelihood to priestcraft, but then I also know that they pretend
to be authoritative, but can offer no demonstration of logic or

2.	The concept that we live only one life and have to squeeze as
much selfish pleasure out of that.

In contrast we have in the Orient the idea of Nirvana or of
Moksha (extinction) whereby they look at the "wheel of rebirth"
as a woeful burden to be escaped from. They strive using a more
or les mechanical method to purify their minds of selfishness, in
order to escape the pangs of sorrow and suffering that earth-life
entails. Each winner of that prize is then supposed to retire
for an infinitude of bliss (undefined) -- and leave mankind and
their near and dear ones in the lurch. But I find that The
SECRET DOCTRINE speaks of their "return" [ S D II 79-80, 94,
254-5, I 233, M L p. 87, Glos p. 232, ] (These are some of
the most interesting references , and I can send more if you want

Both are exaggerations of course and unbalanced for different

If you were to ask me to be more explicit, then I would have to
say that my understanding of "initiation" implies that the
purified MIND alone (Buddhi-Manas) is able to penetrate beyond
the illusions of the psychic and the personal realm of selfish
and isolationist opinions (Kama-Manas). It is the pure MANAS --
the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS that is the REAL MAN -- and it pierces,
unmodified, through all the planes of experience and serves to
uphold the unbroken memory of those experiences. [ See BHAGAVAD
GITA Notes, pp 99-101. ]

Once that is achieved the ability to perceive without the
illusions of either opinions or personal interests become

>From what I have read about "initiations" it enables the student
(disciple) to detach his consciousness from the physical embodied
"brain-mind" of the personality and his physical form. Then as a
detached mind he would be able to perceive as facts in other
planes and realms of Nature the facts that he has hitherto been
taught in theory. The matter of "purification" is
all-significant, for the reason that no possibility of abuse can
be tolerated by Nature in those who are permitted these
experiences and insights. [ See S D II (System) 133; Records:
I xxii, xxxiv, 272-3, 230, 646; II 49, 68-70, 230, 271-2,
437-8, 439, 500, 505, 572, 580, 700, 796, Rulers I xlv,
280fn, 611-12; II 339, 364, Rare: S D I 207-211, ]

Any abuse or selfish use would transform the "gift" or the
"ability" into "black magic" and cause it to become destructive
rather than constructive for the good of the whole. The true
INITIATE is one to whom the barriers of the planes of life and of
consciousness become permeable, and those powers which are innate
in all of us, are awakened and given for use only to those who
will never abuse them or employ them selfishly.

You might say this is dreaming or fancy. I answer: How does a
child acquire the faculty of thinking? How does he learn to
distinguish between the concepts of right and wrong? Is it not
the elders, the parents and the teachers who by training, example
and discipline urge the child to develop a control over his
emotional nature and learn to discipline it?

The use of various "yogas" or disciplines is spoken of in the
BHAGAVAD GITA, chapters 14, 17, 18 and can be inquired into in
greater detail with the use of Patanjali's YOGA APHORISMS. { Do
you have and use the Judge renditions of these two books? They
are most useful. }

The clues are given to all of us. One finds them closest to the
surface, I think, in the VOICE OF THE SILENCE. It need to be
carefully analyzed. so too, in the LIGHT ON THE PATH there is
much there that dovetails with the Gita and the Voice -- all
three need to be correlated, in my esteem.

See if this is of help in any way, and let me have your reaction.



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:30 PM
Subject: Dallas and Atma Revisited

Thank you Dallas,

In response to my request about "hints" from HPB and
Judge as to
how one might get beyond Manas you write:

>More than hints in the disposition of qualities in the 7
>Above mind is Buddhi -- Universal Wisdom of all time.
>Initiation into the use of INTUITION I believe is meant.

Bruce: I guess here I was thinking not so much about the theory
as about
what this Initiation actually is. What process of initiation is
here? Are there meditative practices, for instance, or
instructions in the
ES section of the TS which give the members more of a sense of
how to
proceed to get beyond the theory?

>Buddhi or PRIMORDIAL PURE MATTER serves allegorically as the
>"vase" that enshrouds and supports the UNIVERSAL CENTRAL SUN of
>all. ( See Gayatri verse ) In this way the grossest matter is
>protected and given a life of its own so that it may struggle
>eventually, shedding itself of ignorance and "maya," may reach
>the Truth. In that process it transforms itself . The "Monad
>lesser experience" eventually become the MONAD OF FULL

Bruce: I can see this process described in the literature, and I
think it
is helpful to have this description because it gives one a sense,
intellectually, of where one can go with this process of
transformation. The question then remains, is there anything in
literature which suggests how one moves from being a Monad of
experience to become a Monad of full experience?

I can see that Jnana Yoga is important, in that it is
the yoga of
study, of learning, of increasing knowledge. But then one has to
have a
sense of direction also, so I can see how the model provided by
guides one in study. But then the desire arises to move beyond
(as Krishna suggests in the Gita) and then Raja Yoga becomes the
avenue. But even then HPB seems to suggest in "Voice of the
Silence" that
one must go beyond even the practices of Raja Yoga and certainly
the limits
of Jnana Yoga, since she says that the mind is the slayer of the
real and
that one must get beyond the Hall of Learning. This would
suggest another
step beyond these yogas, which are at some stages of spiritual
quite essential, as is Karma Yoga at some stages, all of which is
by the 7 fold constitution, where one moves from being merely a
body, or
emotions, of the life force (Jiva), or the design body of a
life, or the sum of ideas and logic of Manas to the direct,
Wisdom of Buddhi, to an awareness of Be-ness of Atma. So my
question was
whether HPB gave any specific instructions how one might go
beyond all of
the lower levels to the even higher yoga she implies is needed to

Now, this might actually be asking too much, since her
stance is
that she is a messenger, and that in order to go farther one
actually has
to become a chela of the Masters, the Elder Brothers. And most
of the
people in the 19th century, as KH and M point out over and over,
are not
ready to enter on the road of chelaship. So they did not "give
information which could only be imparted to the chelas after due

But that brings us back to your first sentence about
initiation. And I guess the same question: did HPB anywhere
indicate what
this initiation consisted of or what conditions applied to one
who wanted
to be initiated?

So I can see that what you say below is the teaching,
and from my
own experience I would agree, that it is possible to perceive
from this
Perceiver perspective, through intuitive knowledge and also
through direct
spiritual perception, beyond Manas, which in my experience cannot
be put
into words, since words are the province of Manas and Buddhi
perception is
beyond Manas:

>forms and conditions. Unitary it survives and registers all

Bruce: But I know you have had a lot of experience and study in
the vast
literature of Theosophy, and would appreciate any more direct
sources you
can think of in regard to the above.

Thanks again for all your contributions.

Peace, Bruce

[Back to Top]

Theosophy World: Dedicated to the Theosophical Philosophy and its Practical Application