Theos-Talk Archives (March 2002 Message tt00566)

Brigitte:

Thanks for your interesting comments. My remarks
below.

Brigitte: "either these astral encounters where
delusions by the seer or frauds, as last spring Steve
Stubbs sugested in case of Damodar mentioning the
Christophorus (or watever the similar name) doll.

Actually, it was the Christofolo doll which was
supposed to be a fraud, and what I said was that there
is no good evidence the doll (i.e., the evidence that
there was fraud) ever existed.

Brigitte: "obvious objection to believing in the
astral double appearances of the "Mahatmas" is that,
aside from bilocations, which are difficult to take
seriously, there is not the slightest observational
evidence for its existence

Not true. I have seen it myself. The issue is not
whether people have these experiences (they do) but
what they mean. That latter question is and will
probably remain unresolved.

Brigitte: "nobody has observed it with his senses and
no scientific in?artiment [???] has ever detected it.
This is indeed a valid objection

Not true again. Check Hereward Carrington's book THE
INVISIBLE WORLD for alleged scientific experiments
using cloud chambers to make normally invisible
doubles visible. I am not insisting that the results
were valid, but there have been experiments.

Brigitte: "For example I am not aware of cases of
bilocation in which an astral double was observed
without clothes.

Probably true, but why would this disprove the
existence of a phenomenon worthy of study?

Brigitte: "Dr. Crookall agrees with Gerhardi's
reasoning. "If a man can leave his physical body
temporarily and continue to exist as a selfconscious
being," he told Martin Ebon, the fact would prove a
strong presumption that eventually when he comes to
leave his physical body, i. e., to die, he will then
also continue to 
exist as a self?conscious being in that second body."

The Taoists in Chine deliberately cultivate this
"astral body" in the hope that it can provide them
with immortality.

Nrigitte: "Dalval and Caldwell avoid presenting any
current properly checked evidence regarding
"actual"bilocation, as per Olcott and the Chelas claim
that the Mahatmas where appearing as if physical, but
in fact this was "astral projection." And no I don't
mean just what people tought they saw in th 19th
century,
but something that has been investigated now, in the
21th century, where the people who did or saw things
are alive and can be double checked.

I don't know how you would do that. Double check,
that is. I have seen this phenomenon myself, but it
has been thirty years.

Brigitte: "Not to mention the other six body's (LAWS
of NATURE)
Theosophical astral double/bilocation believers are
juggling with

I think that was some of Leadbeater's nonsense. 
Blavatsky claimed there were only three "forms"
(rupas) one of which was the physical body which we
all agree exists.

Brigitte: "But according to this Master bilocation
theory the etheric/astral body of lets say a boy aged
ten, will look just like the boy looks then

Not necessarily. There have been reports of someone
producing a visible image of himself at a distance and
the image looking like someone else, presumably what
the projector looked like in a previous lifetime. 
Sorry but I do not remember the source after too many
years.

Brigitte: "If a boxer has just been punched in the
face resulting in a flattened nose and the loss of
three front teeth his 
etheric/astral "seance" appearing body will show the
same flattened nose and the same gap in his mouth

Not necessarily. If someone has had a leg amputated,
his "astral double" will show the leg still intact. 
Thus the esoteric explanation of the "phantom limb"
phenomenon.

Brigitte: "the exact state of the regular body at any
given time is very largely the result of its movements
and of influences upon it coming from its environment.
To secure the synchronization required by astral
theory we will have to postulate that coresponding to
every physical act and movement there occurs an astral
act and movement.

The Theosophical theory (I am quoting here) is that
visible manifestations or every sort are preceded by
invisible prototypes which come into existence before
the visible manifestation and persist after the
visible manifestation ceases. This is how Theosophy
explains premonition and psychometry. The "astral
body" therefore precedes the formation of the physical
body and serves as a sort of template for its
formation. The physical body is therefore influenced
by the astral, and not the other way around. Thus the
presumed phenomenon of repercussion. Aside from the
idea of repercussion, which is exclusively Western,
all of this can be found in less developed form in
Eastern treatises.

This theory is much more complex than you think.

Brigitte: "Suppose for the sake of argument that
somebody had a rabbit living inside of him and that
the rabbit escaped after the person's death. This
would surely not amount to the person's survival. 

It would amount to the survival of the rabbit. If the
rabbit is a vehicle of consciousness then that implies
the survival of consciousness. If the consciousness
in question included all the elements of the deceased
person's personality, then that would imply the
survival of the personality.

Steve


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