Theos-Talk Archives (February 2002 Message tt00483)

Hi Brigitte and all of you,

If I understand you correctly my answer is this:

I don't have anything ín writing on this.
It is an ESP thing. My sensory perception make me say this remark on W. Q. Judge.
Sorry I cannot be more helpfull.

Maybe you have some information about Judge, which could put him a little down the ladder ? I just havn't.

from
Sufilight with sweet goblins...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bri_mue" <bri_mue@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 8:02 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: Messages from the Masters and more...


> Morten Sufilight: "Though I am not certain on W. Q. Judge - and his 
> level."
> Why eveybody but Judge, he was co-founder of the TS and part of the 
> esoteric section from the verry beginning ?
> Bri.
> --- In theos-talk@y..., "Morten Sufilight" <teosophy@m...> wrote:
> > Hi Brigitte and all of you,
> > 
> > Brigitte wrote:
> > "But the original question I asked still remains, who from the 
> > participants of this mailinglists think are the real messangers, 
> and 
> > who where the once to receive true messages of the Masters ?
> > Judge, Olcott in 1894, Besant, Leadbeater, Alice Bailey, I Am, 
> Claire 
> > Prophet, and so on and so on ?"
> > 
> > 
> > 1. 
> > I think the answer must be they all told some of the truth. They 
> all had some faulths. 
> > But H. P. Blavatsky was the greatest among them (those you mention 
> in the above) - in wisdom. Though I am not certain on W. Q. Judge - 
> and his level.
> > 
> > I will seek to explain this further - and the view one can have of 
> the history of the Theosophical Society.
> > One reason for answering so can be viewed in the following - 
> excerpts - taken from an article of mine posted earliere on theos-
> talk (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4389) :
> > 
> > 
> > "Let us revert to the Spiritual journey. From time to time suitable 
> teachers of the Wisdom Tradition has been sent by their Masters or 
> guides to travel to a certain place and establish the teaching. Such 
> teachers have an influence on
> > various levels. 
> > Those above mentioned Spiritual teachers work has not only been to 
> give people Spiritual guidance and education. It has also been to 
> prepare the ground for further development of the living progress of 
> the Path of Wisdom.
> > There are also minor emissaries who are sent out to teach and 
> prepare the ground for further development. These people has been 
> known to set themselves up as ultimate authorities, because part of 
> their training is to test their loyalty to the whole School of 
> Wisdom, which is as generally known consisting
> > of one entity.
> > 
> > But, if, a teacher of the Wisdom tradition dies, or there is a gap 
> in the teaching, what then? The interesting thing is, that the very 
> gap is a part of the training. You may explain certain things to a 
> child : shall we say teach her or him not to do certain things. Then 
> you will pretend to go out of the house - and observe her or him. 
> According to how well he/she has learned, so will he/she react. In 
> this 'absence exercise', precisely the same thing happens to the 
> teacher of Wisdom, though many are not conscious of it.
> > 
> > After the disappearance from the field of a teacher of Wisdom, the 
> followers will divide themselves into groups, in accordance with 
> their strength and weaknesses. Some will assume control of others. 
> They may be good or bad, and this will be shown by their reaction to -
> the second teacher - when he/she arrives.
> >  
> > If they realise he/she is their teacher, then they have merely been 
> developing themselves and can mature. But if they have become 
> atrophied, they will be too blind to recognize the Spirituality of 
> the very teacher, for which appearance they have been prepared. They 
> may attach themselves, in default, to a different group. (And this 
> groups existence is maybe no coincidence.) Again well and good : 
> providing they return to the mainstream of teaching when it is 
> offered to them again. 
> > 
> > This is the test of whether they have overcome the lower
> > self. They will realise, if they are sufficiently developed, that 
> the person who appears to be 'second' teacher is in reality - the 
> first in importance. 
> > Life is reversed for the undeveloped man (the newcomer), and he/she 
> will behave in accordance with this. The first teacher does not make 
> life easier, in most cases, for the generality of disciples. He/She 
> will teach them things, which are only of use when the second teacher 
> arrives and reality falls into place. The object of this is twofold. 
> In the first place, certain valuable thoughts have been given to the 
> disciples. In the second, they are tested by the means of these 
> ideas. Just as our western psychologists give odd-shaped pieces of 
> wood to people, to see how they put them together, teachers of Wisdom
> > will give odd-pieces of material of - mental kind - to his/her 
> followers. - If they try to fit these together however, and to make a 
> pattern in his/hers - absences, - they are becoming 'fossilised'. 
> Because, the Wisdom tradition has to show that the object of mankind 
> is not to construct idols, but to follow a supreme pattern, which is 
> learnt piece by piece.
> > 
> > Quite obviously the semi-blind among the people, during 
> their 'waiting-period', will try to work out their own 
> interpretation. They may, as have been done in the past, write books 
> to explain what they have learned. This is the danger-point, because 
> when a man/woman is accepted as, say, a philosopher (of wisdom) 
> because she/he has written a book explaining a philosophy, he/she 
> will not readily accept, that she/he only have been 'fumbling'. 
> He/She has quite possibly become a prisoner of his/hers lower self. 
> The self-conceit of the man/woman is now bound up with 
> his/hers 'creation', the book or the method, which he/she has used to 
> organise the fragments, which he/she has. He/she is probably or 
> possibly lost - for the cause.
> > 
> > In order to break through this shell of accretions and 
> fossilisations, the - second teacher - will tend to act in a 
> different, perhaps in a certain dramatically different manner, from 
> the original one. This could happen, to break the 'idols', which have 
> been formed out of the thoughts, which were
> > originally given. 
> > 
> > So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, not 
> to support a system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is 
> one way in which the Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the 
> perpetuations of ideas and movements. This seems important to 
> understand and know about.
> > 
> > When a system of teaching of wisdom is in a period of fallowness, 
> because the one who propagated it is dead, then there comes a period 
> of stagnation. This period can last between 10 years, 15 years or 
> more. In the time, which passes,
> > the group of people who is affected by the system are sieved by 
> natural means.
> > 
> > Some wander away. Others carry on automatically not really knowing, 
> what they are doing. They are now 'frozen', though they do not know 
> they are.
> > The blind may try to lead the blinder. This takes the form of 
> assumption of authority by those who were given some sort of 
> authority in the original mandate. These are the people in the most 
> dangerous position, because the longer they remain 'orphaned' the 
> more strongly their lower self (or the three
> > lower bodies) asserts it self.
> > Others may modify the teachings in a learned and personal way. Some 
> certainly fall a prey to cults, which have come into being in order 
> to serve them. The people who joins these are at great pains to 
> explain why they consider, that they represent the same kind of 
> teaching - and this is important. It is important, because it shows 
> the Theosophist or the real spiritually minded, very clearly, that 
> the people who try to explain - are in fact troubled by conscience. 
> Somewhere inside them, they know, that they are identifying 
> themselves with an imitation, or a second-best. But they are 
> supported by their lower bodies or lower personality, - and this is 
> too strong for them.
> > Those can be helped by being lead to think in new thinking-patterns 
> and systems. It is via the conscience, that one finds the path 
> forward, - thereby will be able to remove the limitations of the 
> lower personality.
> > 
> > Imagine a group of people shipwrecked. They think there is no hope 
> of rescue.
> > They find a raft, and are glad. After a time more people come along 
> in a big boat. But the first people will not leave the raft, because 
> they have become used to it. They may have convinced themselves, that 
> it is actually a boat. (So it is to some philosophical or religious 
> people today.)
> > 
> > The points at which the mystical traditions, which are still alive, 
> are in contact with each other cannot really be explained by the 
> means of books. And yet people continue to write books showing how 
> they have found this and that
> > point of resemblance. 
> > 
> > The truth can only be found by actual experience, - and easier by 
> awareness on such aspect as I have touch upon.
> > 
> > To sink ecstasy in Wisdom is better than to sink Wisdom in ecstasy. 
> The Wisdom Tradition teaches by several different systems, and not 
> only by one, - one book or teen books, BUT also by thousands and 
> thousands of books - and the dogmatic ones doesn't want to listen."
> > 
> > 2. 
> > And Annie Besant has been put forward by Sathya Sai Baba in one of 
> his speeches as a teacher of wisdom etc.
> > 
> > 3. 
> > In a book by Diana Baskin called "The Divine Memories of Sathya Sai 
> Baba" she mentions, that Krishnamurti shortly before his dead - had a 
> meeting with Sathya Sai Baba - in India at Madras.
> > Diana Baskin being the daughter of Raja (the Krishnamurti 
> administrator) is not just anybody. Raja was taught by Annie Besant 
> and Leadbeater - and became a follower of Sathya Sai Baba - before he 
> died some years back.
> > 
> > 4. 
> > I know, that the theosophical Howard Murphet have written a chapter 
> in one of his books - about Theosophy - compared with Sathya Sai 
> Baba. Has anyone read this book ? And will anyone one make a comment 
> on this chapter ?
> > 
> > from
> > Sufilight with a flexible thought system...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
>  
> 
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