Theos-Talk Archives (February 2002 Message tt00084)

As I understand it, there is the ideal and there is the real. There is 
the aspiration and there is the daily grind. Theosophy recommends 
compassion, tolerance, loyalty, forgiveness. If, after sending out 
countless reams of messages of solid reliable information, endless 
patience with cant and diversions, steady attention to what is 
important in the face of endless blathering about side issues, and 
endurance of being called all kinds of names and having all sorts of 
untruths flung at him, a theosophist voices an personal opinion, 
shall we immediatly pounce on him and tear him to bits? What is 
going on here? Where is our perspective? Is there anyone on this 
list who is perfect in every way? If so, that person is entitled to 
criticize others. But of course, if such a person did exist, he would 
not stoop so low. And if we are not perfect, what business do we 
have pointing out the faults of others? Let's get real. If theosophy 
means anything at all, it must be theosophists who think so. What 
have they to do with attacking each other for some word spoken in 
a moment of frustration? Does anyone really think we have any 
such right? And what do we hope to accomplish by behaving in 
such a manner?

Adelasie

On 5 Feb 02, at 18:11, Bill Meredith wrote:

> Thank you for your candid response. May I also be so candid?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
> To: "Theosophy Study List" <theos-l@list.vnet.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:25 PM
> Subject: RE: Theos-World how does theosophy explain 'disgust'?
> 
> 
> > Tuesday, February 05, 2002
> >
> > Dear Bill:
> >
> > I offer you my opinion: Yes, I am disgusted.
> >
> Is this disgust something that you take pride in? Is it a feeling
> that you recommend I cultivate an appetite for as well? Shall I be
> disgusted at the same things and people as you or may I have a choice?
> My central question is whether Theosophy, as you understand it,
> allows for, or possibly even demands that we adopt a posture of
> disgust with those people and ideas that oppose it. You, of all
> people on this list, are most inclined to continually offer what
> Theosophy is and Theosophy says as 'proof' of something. I ask you
> again. What does Theosophy, as you understand it, say about
> 'disgust'? And I ask again, if your disgust is at ideas contained in
> e-mails, or the people who write such e-mails?
> 
> 
> > As I understand it this group was established to discuss
> > Theosophy, and not the character of people associated with it.
> 
> As I understand it this group was established to discuss theosophy
> with a small t. The particular brand of theosophy that you give your
> allegiance to is discussed most effectively on the BN lists, where
> moderator's keep 'students' from straying too far from the established
> doctrines. I also am quite certain that you have no problem with
> discussing the character of people associated with theosophy, so long
> as the discussion proceeds along the lines that you have come to
> accept as representative of the true character of the people
> associated with it. I mean if Adelasie characterizes HPB as a saint,
> do you have a problem with that?
> 
> > And certainly not to have character association served up daily.
> > This is undignified.
> 
> Yes it is extremely undignified. It is more so when the one doing the
> character association (I assume you mean assassination) seems so
> unaware of his actions. I quote you again: "I have not been reading
> fully the posts by Brigitte or Paul Johnson -- they disgust me." 
> Dallas, can you not see that your words reflect that characteristic 
> which you despise most in your 'enemy'?
> 
> >
> > People who write history and expect respect, of the kind that
> > gives stature to a writer for perhaps the next 100 years, do not
> > reopen exploded slanders settled and disposed of a 100 years ago,
> > unless some overlooked novelty has emerged. I am annoyed, and
> > frankly, disgusted by the jejune and baseless beating of "dead
> > horses."
> 
> 
> Yes, I know you are. My question is why? Do you see yourself as a
> 'protector' of some previously agreed upon truth? Is it possible that
> the horse is not so dead as you think? Possible, but not probable, as
> Daniel would say? The horse may be a decaying carcass to you, but it
> may be a high spirited thorough bred challenging ride to others.
> 
> > In cases where I find no "level field" is provided, I protest in the
> > name of fairness to all. Both sides of any issue need exposure to
> > provide balance, and fairness. That is appreciated, recognized, and
> > provides dignity and stature.
> >
> 
> I accept that you actually believe that you are promoting a level
> field that recognizes and appreciates balance and fairness to all. 
> Some of your words say different. You promote disgust for those who
> openly oppose your understanding of truth. You promote ignoring that
> which disagrees with your precepts. You promote an "us against them"
> condition which is an artificial construct of your own intellect. You
> could choose to respond in a different manner, but you don't.
> 
> > If any one wants to ascertain if there is validity in THEOSOPHY, let
> > them study it as a philosophy, as an hypothesis concerning the
> > formation of the Universe and our world, on the nature of man as an
> > intelligence, on universal purposiveness, and the reason for our
> > being here, and then, report on their findings, or raise questions.
> >
> 
> What does theosophy say is our reason for being here?
> Why has this current incarnation brought us all together in this cyber
> format? Why are you and me and the KPJs and Brigittes of the world
> attracted to each other? Have they been with us from life to life. 
> Why? Of course Karma is a word that proposes to explain why, but
> really only offers a theory on how. Why Dallas? You are older and
> wiser than me. Why do the e-mails from Paul Johnson and Mauri show up
> on your computer screen day after day? If they disgust you, why
> haven't you blocked them? Is it possible that you secretly enjoy the
> 'fight' to preserve HPB's rendition of theosophy?
> 
> > For instance, here are some subjects being currently discussed
> > and which others, and I, have been seeking answers for:
> >
> > Is there actual immortality? Is it possible this is in
> > "invisible Nature and invisible Man ?"
> > Do Law and Laws rule the Universe?
> > Is there any Goal for evolution?
> > What is the power of thought? How is it developed? Where does it
> > lead? Is a single life adequate to learn all that can be known about
> > our environment, ourselves and our potential future? Who (or what)
> > runs the world and our Universe? Are we privileged to inquire into
> > that ? What are the limits of Space? What are the ultimate divisions
> > of Time? Is eternity a fact or just a "very long time?" How is
> > Consciousness to be defined? Is Universal Brotherhood a fact in
> > nature or only a wispy dream? Why study other religions and
> > sciences? Where is the research of human endeavor recorded? Who
> > keeps those records?
> 
> 
> Sorry Dallas, but this is not a list of questions. Rather it is a
> list of prompts for canned Theosophical (big T) responses, that you
> have on file at your fingertips. I have read them all over the last
> few years. They are good and useful, but they are not the alpha and
> omega. Like Jerry, I am not in your camp or that of your enemy. 
> Like Mauri, I am trying to read your e-mails as somehow possibly being
> Karmically designed just for me. Also KPJ's and Brigittes and
> Sufilights. With that thought in mind, I look forward to your next
> response.
> 
> > That will be of interest to most of us, I believe.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> 
> Yes, best wishes. But more than that, best designs.
> 
> Bill
> > Dallas
> >
> >
> > ===========================
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Meredith [mailto:bilmer@surfsouth.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 7:11 PM
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Theos-World how does theosophy explain 'disgust'?
> >
> > 4. Does the idea of reincarnation change how we look at those
> > around us?
> >
> > ====================================
> >
> > DTB on bn-basic:
> > Yes, because we realize we are all brother and sister
> > SPIRITUAL MONADS and have been and will be reincarnating
> > together. So we might as well treat each other from here on as
> > members of an immortal family.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> >
> > DTB on theos-talk:
> > > I have not been reading fully the posts by Brigitte or Paul
> > > Johnson -- they disgust me.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> > I must ask what exactly disgusts you -- the posts that you don't
> > read fully or Brigitte and Paul Johnson? I am interested in this
> > feeling of disgust to which you refer. I have felt it before
> > myself. I could not identify the source of such a feeling. Do you
> > feel it at the spiritual level or just superficially by the
> > personality? If it is deep and abiding within the spirit, what does
> > it mean to say "they disgust me"? For instance if we are all
> > destined to reincarnate again together, will "they disgust me" again
> > and again until they change their stripes or I change mine?
> >
> > I wonder was HPB ever disgusted?
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > ---
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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