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Re: Theos-World Re: HPB, the Masters, and drugs.

Feb 03, 2002 09:07 AM
by adelasie

Dear Brigitte,

Are there actually published statements by HPB to the effect that, 
as Steve said,

HPB did in fact use botanical substances, as she
> > > > said herself, and her masters did as well, as she
> > > > says.

You have offered an edited version of statements by Olcott on this 
subject, but so far you have not produced any statements by HPB. 
Perhaps Steve will respond.


On 3 Feb 02, at 16:34, bri_mue wrote:

> Adelasie: However, Steve did say,
> HPB did in fact use botanical substances, as she
> > > > said herself, and her masters did as well, as she
> > > > says.
> Brigitte: We did have a previous discussion on this list on this
> subject, in fact there is a relation with the drugs to astral
> projection in the early TS and mirror gasing. In fact Steve wrote:
> There is plenty of reason to believe (1) Blavatsky
> used mirror gazing to develop her clairvoyance, and
> (2) was at least familiar with Randolph's manual of
> mirror gazing entitled SEERSHIP, whether he was her
> original teacher or not.
> Consider the following quote from THE TRANSACTIONS OF
> "If the Astral Light is collected in a cup or metal
> vessel hy will;power, and the eyes fixed on
> some point in it with a strong will to see, a waking
> vision or 'dream' is the result, if the person is at
> all sensitive. The reflections in the Astral Light are
> seen better with closed eyes, and, in sleep, still
> more distinctly. From a lucid state, vision becomes
> translucid; from normal organic consciousness it rises
> to a transcendental state of consciousness."
> This is clearly a reference to mirror gazing, using a
> metal surface instead of a glass mirror. Now consider
> the following from mahatma letter #127:
> "The methods used for developing lucidity in our
> chelas may be easily used by you. Every temple has a
> dark room, the north wall of which is entirely covered
> with a sheet of mixed metal, chiefly copper, very
> highly polished, with a surface capable of reflecting
> in it things, as well as a mirror. The chela sits on
> an insulated stool, a three-legged bench placed in a
> flat-bottomed vessel of thick glass, - the lama
> operator likewise, the two forming with the mirror
> wall a triangle. A magnet with the North Pole up is
> suspended over the crown of the chela's head without
> touching it. The operator having started the thing
> going leaves the chela alone gazing on the wall, and
> after the third time is no longer required."
> Here again we have a clear reference to mirror gazing,
> again using a metal surface for a mirror. The
> experiment indicates considerable western influence. 
> We now know that this setup did not in fact exist in
> "every temple" in Tibet. The idea of using a mirror
> of mixed metals comes from Paracelsus, as Hartmann
> showed. The magnet also indicates a western
> influence.
> Now notice the statement that mirror gazing techniques
> constitute "the methods used for developing lucidity
> in our chelas." That is pretty explicit. That is a
> category in which Blavatsky would have included
> herself. Notice also the statement that "the chela
> sits on an insulated stool, a three legged
> bench placed in a flat bottomed vessel of thick
> glass." That idea, that the seer should sit in a
> chair electrically insulated from the ground using
> glass, comes from Randolph's book SEERSHIP.
> Now consider this piece of doggerel, from mahatma
> letter # 19:
> "No curtain hides the spheres Elysian,
> Nor these poor shells of half transparent dust;
> For all that blinds the spirit's vision
> Is pride and hate and lust." (Not for publication)
> That is given unattributed and appears unattributed in
> Randolph's book as well.
> Brigitte: Blavatsky definetly believed she "needed" the mirror 
> because that 
> is the way her teacher tought it to her and indications are that is
> where the drugs among others where used for. Below find the story
> posted by Daniel Caldwell, edited by Steve so as to show only those
> portions which indicate that herbs were involved in the experience:
> "We took cigars. ... I was stupefied. ... They sat
> there and quietly smoked their cigars. ... I just sat
> and looked at them in a sort of stupid daze. They
> seemed to enjoy my surprise. ... Then the elder man
> took out of his pocket a painted lacquered case. ...
> The box exhaled a strong spicy aromatic odor much like
> sandal wood but still not just that. Whatever I
> wished to see, he said I need simply think of. ...
> When I seemed to be growing inquisitive, some power
> prevented my seeing anything. ... I stood transfixed
> looking from one to another in dumb amazement. ...
> Madam said, ... 'What's the matter? You must be
> crazy.' ... Madam said they had been with her for more
> than an hour. ... In a half hour from the time the two
> men left, there was not a drop of moisture in the room
> nor a shade of dampness to indicate that there had
> been a shower."
> In this quote we see evidence of herbs burning, herbs
> contained within a lacquered case which was held to
> Olcott's nose, visual hallucinations, tactile
> hallucinations (the room was wet), profuse sweating,
> time distortion, loss of consciousness, cognitive
> impairment, and stupefaction. Can any reasonable
> person read this story and believe that there were no
> botanical products involved in this wonder? 
> Especially interesting is that these drugs are the
> means of "the production of flowers as the adepts do
> it." That clearly indicates that they used these
> substances to produce visual hallucinations and
> presumably insights.
> As for the Hartmann letter, the mahatma letters
> frankly admit most (but not necessarily all) of them
> were delivered in a normal manner and palmed off on
> people. Blavatsky frankly admitted most (but not all)
> of them were written, not by the men whose signatures
> they bear, but by "amanuensis chelas", i.e., herself
> and Damodar. If there is a paranormal aspect to most
> of them it is therefore her belief that she was
> inspired with their thoughts or did automatic writing
> or whatever. That said, it does not seem to me to be
> good historical technique to insist that the Hartmann
> letter was materialized. A letter could only be
> assumed to have been materialized if someone who is
> credible (not Leadbeater, in other words) actually
> witnessed the process. Hodgson quoted an account by
> Olcott of this.
> One thing is for sure: figuring where the baloney ends
> and the truth begins is an excellent exercise in
> developing critical reasoning ability which serves one
> well in assessing other issues in other areas of
> life.
> Steve 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

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