Theos-Talk Archives (December 2001 Message tt00477)

Saturday, December 22, 2001

Dear Mark, and Friends:

Not to be facetious, but I think most of your questions and
observations are answered in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) .

Let me see if I can repeat what I conceive to be true and
accurate, briefly.

The SPIRITUAL aspect of each one of us is a common and shared
property -- the "personality" is the "disciple" under training,
as I see it. The Mind is the observer, chooser and receives
eventually the fruit of its choices as the Karma woven by Nature
to fit it, in an effort to restore Harmony if that is necessary.
The Higher Mind is the spiritual BUDDHI-MANAS. The Lower Mind is
the desire and passions, Kama -- therefore we have : the
argumentative, selfishly personal, and opinionated:
KAMA-MANAS (see Key, p. 175-6)

There is as wide a difference in discussing personalities as
there exists between the "Eye" and the "Heart " doctrine. -- the
HEART DOCTRINE (I have assumed to be) THEOSOPHY. I believe H P B
makes this clear in the PRACTICAL SECTION of the KEY TO
THEOSOPHY (HPB).

My objective is to remind us all of this, and to see if it is
true. Yes. I declare that H P B needs to be defended by us all,
if we have in any way profited from her "message."

If one wants to discuss personalities then there are a few good
history and biographical books that provide the necessary
sequence of documents. Opinions are not of much value. The only
fruit of discussing personal opinions is ill-will. No one ever
proves anything, but may are annoyed. I am annoyed at this
frustrating and pointless waste of time. Of course I say that it
makes us all look very foolish and makes of Theosophy an apparent
sham -- as we cannot be self-controlled.

I claim not to be either judge or jury.. Let the PHILOSOPHY of
THEOSOPHY do that. I try to point to universal principles, such
as I have discovered (and thought about) in Theosophy. I believe
we are doing this, all of us. Are the differences severe? Are
interpretations always exact? Of course not. So let us resolve
them on that universal "level field" of good-will, BROTHERHOOD
will prevail (as the rules of the game) and discrimination (a
Buddhic faculty) will act as umpire. I see no "maya" or
"illusion" in this, do you ?

Incidentally, I did not start this round of debate or personality
bashing. I waited for it to die away. Then I have tried to quash
it by pointing to those principles valuable for all of us and
present in Theosophy. As I see it, these we can agree on and see
that they have to do with universal standards of virtue and the
common Path of PROGRESS for all. And as far as I can determine,
that is BROTHERHOOD, and does not give license to any one to
attempt to assassinate the character of any one, especially when
they are impotent and absent.

Fortunately, the statements that H P B and the Masters of Wisdom
have made in ISIS UNVEILED and The SECRET DOCTRINE on the matter
of world and human history, and the workings of Karma in
manifested Nature, will stand long after we are gone and
forgotten.

Best wishes,

Dallas

=============================

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kusek [mailto:mark@withoutwalls.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 11:57 PM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: Re: theos-l digest: December 19, 2001

> Subject: Re to Dallas
> From: "Gerald Schueler" <gschueler@earthlink.net>
>
> <<<I ask again of all of us: Have we the knowledge, and the
capacity to write an ISIS UNVEILED or a SECRET DOCTRINE ? >>>
>
> You are asking the wrong question, Dallas. Writing books is a
manas function and has NOTHING to do with spirituality. Anyone
who has a reasonably high IQ can research information and write
books on it.

Not if the SECRET DOCTRINE and ISIS UNVEILED are the INFALLIBLE
REVEALED WORD OF GOD!!!!!

> <<<One thing is quite clear: those who support gossipers and
character distorters are themselves NOT students of THEOSOPHY,>>
>
> Well, you first set yourself up as a judge of what is gossip
and what is speculation and what is fact, and then you set
yourself up as a judge of Theosophical students. Very
interesting... (and you still claim that you are not a
fundamentalist???) I hope I am just misunderstanding you here.

Here come da JUDGE!

> <<<We are not here, on this "List," as I understand it, to
study the life of H P B and certainly not the inaccuracies of
fact, and the many unfounded innuendos of some recent
contributors. >>>
>
> Well, I for one, hope we are here to do more than throw quotes
around and pretend we understand them.

I thought quote slinging was the Theosophical sport of choice?

> <<<Are, or are we not at the core center of our being immortal
SPIRIT/SOULS?>>>
>
> No. Our immortal core is neither matter nor spirt.

Isn't this just inflated grasping?

> <<<Is the concept of the "ETERNAL PILGRIM" novel, real, or
foolish ?>>>
>
> It is maya. Is maya real or foolish?

It's a hope for the personality, but ultimately a Maya.

> <<<What is "Matter ?" [ All definitions are welcome. providing
they give a CAUSE. ]>>>
>
> There is no CAUSE to matter, nor is there a CAUSE to spirt,
which is the same thing.

Is the CAUSELESS CAUSE a CAUSE?

> <<<<What is LAW. Is KARMA a fact?>>>
>
> The LAW is that karma is maya.

Dependent on Manifestation.

> <<<Does NATURE provide the patterns and the layout for all
forms and their development ?>>>
>
> Nature is collective humanity.

"Collective humanity", hmm ... please explain. Wouldn't it be
more precise to say the collective of sentient beings? Why just
single out humanity?

-- M