Theos-Talk Archives (November 2001 Message tt00377)

Tuesday, November 20, 2001

Dear Leon:

We get wound up in epistemology as Reed suggests.

What English words more accurately represents the facts being
considered.

Physical IMAGES (forms, presences, manifestations...) often
require metaphysical CAUSES. Can we identify those? I mean,
satisfactory to all of us -- as we individually need t see if
they can agree with our experience, and memory. Oh where is the
"pure reasoning" of Kant ? How can we impersonalize ours ?

MIND-FORCE can be used to probe for these. "Mind" appears to be
able to pass through, as an integrated whole, any level, plane,
cause, source, limitation, and yet retains its sense of 'I-ness,"
INTEGRITY.

Of course if the physical vehicle for the MIND is damaged (i.e.,
usually the Brain, but also, the whole nervous system of the
body, and this includes each individual cell -- as all components
are Monads and are progressing on their individual pilgrimage by
their contact and usage by us), that BODY will not respond freely
to impulses (in or out) that impact it. And we are on this
"waking plane" (Jagrata) are forced to deal with the evidence
related to this plane, which Theosophy calls the grossest of all
7 planes.

You ask me for references: I would say the first 300 pages of
The SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. I establishes the basis that Theosophy
has determined ( S D I 272-3 ) by experiment to be the most
reliable. [ 3 FUNDAMENTALS, 7 PRINCIPLES OF MAN AND NATURE. ]

It is not easy to apply them universally starting from our
position as physically encased THINKERS, w have to constantly
look for the logical CAUSES and the ONE SOURCE that acts as the
fulcrum for manifestation, individually, or as a whole.

More often we need phrases.

If we live in a "world of effects" then we need to discover the
one or several causes that operate behind these tangible limits
of our "material world." [ The Karmic cause ? ]

Is this of help?

Dallas


========================================


-----Original Message-----
From: leonmaurer
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 8:51 PM
To:
Subject: Re: My Views

You must all be from out of both unmanifest and manifest space
and time
(although Jerry seems to see it a bit clearer than the rest.:-)

Time is only a measure of change, and change can only occur after
unmanifest
space, or "pure consciousness," which exists in infinite
duration, emanates
manifest space-time and manifest consciousness. Atma, then, is
unconscious
only with respect to "space-time" -- in which only "self
consciousness" and
"awareness" of material forms can exist, along with "free will."

Thus. "manifest consciousness" is not the same aspect of the
divine source as
the "pure consciousness" (unconsciousness, if you will) of
"unmanifest space"
(although it is still ONE with it) -- of which Atma is its first
immaterial
reflection surrounding the seven fold material planes of manifest
existence.
Therefore, while Atma is unconscious (and timeless) with respect
to the
(material) fields (principles or planes) of manifest space, it is
"pure
consciousness" itself -- that always remains outside of manifest
space-time
-- as its "creative" guide or spiritual cause ("creator" if you
like).

For a contemporary scientist's take on this with respect to
modern relativity
and quantum physics, I suggest reading physicist Amit Goswami's
*The Self
Aware Universe*. Another book which come close to confirming the
scientific
basis of theosophy is Ruppert Sheldrake's, *A New Science of
Life*. Also see
The Theory of ABC (by yours truly) at:
http://tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/ along with
the diagrams
at:
http://members.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakraf
ield.html

Perhaps Dallas can also give us some HPB and WQJ references that
confirm the
above statements.

LHM

CUT