Theos-Talk Archives (November 2001 Message tt00290)

Friday, November 16, 2001
 
Dear friend:
 
May I respond to your contribution to these exchanges?  I ask you in advance to excuse any abruptness you may encounter or sense in my replies
 
 
1.         The existence or non existence of “masters.”
 
 
You have raised important points and offered scattered quotations.
 
Permit m to interject some comments below in the body of your text.
 
Best wishes,
 
Dallas
 
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-----original message-----
from: g--ggs m--k
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 2:38 pm
to: 
subject: memorable quotes
 
 
Gm
            Where ’s the proof that the Ascended Masters exist? Apologists point to afew letters in a museum in England supposedly written and precipitated by the Masters during the 1800s . 
 
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DTB     
 
            in regard to this (just above) permit me to observe:  the museum in London is the venerable British Museum.  (equivalent to the Library of Congress).
 
The phrase “Ascended Masters” was not used by Mme. Blavatsky.  One wonders why and where it was developed -- perhaps by some of the later groups of students.  But, to my way of thinking, the important question in all theosophical matters is more a question of what was said,than who said it, with the exception of H P B -- who was the accredited “agent” of the Masters and spoke for them.  
 
It is my conviction that the “theosophical” Adepts, or Elder Brothers are living in and on this earth and have much to do with its progress -- as the literature of theosophy makes plain.  The reasonable concept of the immortality of the human spirit/soul, and of reincarnation would make this a certainty rather than a matter of conjecture.  Some thoughts on this are given below:
 
The interchangeable terms :  Masters, Mahatmas, Brothers, Elder Brothers, Adepts, Masters of Wisdom, etc…, were put into use by early writers, who wished to show their respect for such wise ones. 
 
1.         The existence of “Masters of Wisdom” does not have to be proved. Their presence can be deduced and evidence for that is widely available to those who know the importance of the  ethico-moral causes and effects that sweep our culture and the evolution of mankind onward. 
 
2.         For some, it is a logical deduction that there are wise men in the world.  They are under no obligation to reveal themselves to us or to anyone. They are busy people andcannot make time for delays, or satisfy the curious. Nor are They interested in forming a “church.”  
 
Adequate evidence of their presence and influence can be traced by those who are able to attune themselves to their nature -- a nature that is universally sensitive to the real needs of human development, and general progress.  As an analogy, one might consider the administrative and tutorial staff -- rectors, deans, professors, or presidents --  of our universities. They are not compelled to show themselves, or demonstrate their competence to mere applicants for admission, or to the hoi polloi, who could not recognize their ability by any means so far developed by them.  The most qualified of teachers from our local university might walk right by us tomorrow, and we would not recognize him or her.  Our ability to meet physically, or even to hold a dialog with such individuals, offers no “proof” of their competence.  
 
In some cases, if we develop the ability to understand them at the level they can teach, this alone demonstrates to us their competence and that eminence. But this personal conviction is not one we can communicate to others as proof. To those “others,” it may appear that we “blindly believe.”   If one has read the Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky, we will recall the chapter titled:  “The Grand Inquisitor.”  In that, Jesus appears in Seville during an auto-da-fe conducted by the Inquisition.  The Grand Inquisitor recognizes him and has him arrested and incarcerated.  That night he visits him… the narrative that follows contains the point I am trying to make.  Another book that few remember was written by Upton Sinclair in the1920s:  “hey Call Me Carpenter.” Both these give a view of the difficulty the Church would encounter if Jesus appeared in publictoday.
 
A study of their original teachings (Theosophy) can do that.  No one is obliged to enroll themselves into any academy except by their own choice.  The published writings of real  teachers are deemed adequate proof of their erudition, and their care for the evolution of the earth.  So is it with Theosophy.  Those who have studied it, know something of its value.  This kind of study can lend depth to our perception of the wonderful support we receive constantly from nature, and breadth to our minds and aspirations. 
 
3.         Many persons have given independent testimony to witnessing the existence of “Masters of Wisdom.”  Some saw and conversed with them, others owe their conviction to what they have written.  The conviction of their possessionof great wisdom, and of their existence, is always one that an individual develops in himself.  This can be shared with others, to discover if they have had similar experiences.  No one can “prove” anything to another.  They can only speak of what they experienced, orof their conclusions.
 
Whatever our several opinions may be, that which is relevant is the inherent worth of what has been presented for us to consider.   Each oneis urged to make an independent determination as to value.  
 
When skepticism is offered  it may arouse the spirit of research.  In others who do not care to investigate, it may produce rejection.  Each one has to deal with their doubts as best they can, since no one can alter the mind-set of another.  The more universal and impersonal our mind-view, the more we may be able to embrace the universe as a whole, and may begin to perceive what we can contribute to it.  
 
On the other hand:  we ought to consider the cumulative worth of a 130years of evidence.  One can study the testimony offered, and, one might read in H P B’s ISIS UNVEILED, that there has been, evidence forthe existence of wise men, of prophets, reformers and teachers, and that this extends over many more years and centuries than our abbreviated historyreveals. [ ISIS UNVEILED  II  pp. 97 - 103]  One may further discover that they, the wise, all taught the same fundamental doctrines, and the same ethics to be used in a setting of ideal communal living anywhere, and at any time in the past or present of our world.
 
The primary basis for theosophical doctrines (which claim this antiquity and universality) is their enormous span of history. (our records of history,presented to us in the course of our education, seem to be limited to about 7,000 years, then, the records are seen to fade and disappear into the shadows of tradition and myth)  Occasionally we find traces of buildingsand monuments that indicate a great antiquity to the theoretical antiquityascribed to many ancient civilizations, and these, remain to this day the puzzles of the paleontologists and archeologists.  [See as an example pages 151-2 in MAHATMA LETTERS (barker edition); however, the SECRET DOCTRINE throws light on those artifacts and the past civilizations that developed them.  
 
Theosophy, delving into the sources of  religions, philosophies, mythsand sects of our past and present, offers the concept that:  the original, primitive spirit of wisdom, when embodied, generates the process of evolution, so that the least being in existence may, some day, attain to thewisdom implicit in the wisest of all natures’ excellences --  (Deity) --  as Sublime Perfection, and, an equality of intelligencefor all.  This forms the primary basis for the “first object:”   Universal Brotherhood.
 
It is sublime, because it denies this wisdom to none.  It encourages the concept of brotherly regard and practice as a necessary process that will lead to all beings becoming eventually wise.  Wisdom may be defined as the ability to make knowledge universally beneficent.
 
It therefore posits (to repeat) as a basic principle, the concept that every being is in fact an immortal, and never “dies.”  Onemight say, starting with atomic and sub-atomic entities, that each has a fraction, however minute, of the ONE, the original, the universal and all-pervasive SPIRIT residing in it.  Around it, it attracts the necessary forms (atoms, molecules, cells, etc…)  to give it embodiment inour material environment.  The doctrine of the “seven principles” in nature and in man emerges from this necessity. [ see  KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) and SECRET DOCTRINE,  vol. I  p. 157, and, II,  p.  596 ]
 
If this is acceptable, then it becomes possible to see how through a vast process of repeated experience, every such unit (or monad) experiences life and purposive, conscious living through all forms.  Obviously evolution is not limited to the formal embodiments we all know and are familiar with in this solitary life.  Our science recognizes the immutability as well as the continual transmigration of all atoms throughout the universe over a vast period of time.  It endows, conceptually, each atom with thequality of immortality calling it a “perpetual motion machine.”
 
As said above: the logical outcome of this concept is that total evolution has, and will, always be made available to every unit, until every such entity eventually attains to the level of intelligence represented by the manifestation of the one consciousness through the focus we call:  spirit/soul/mind which animates (and is the cause for) each unit of mankind. In a sensitive and caring universe no single unit in its whole vast constituency will be denied the opportunity to succeed and graduate from this school of experience, in which we all share.
 
It posits logically, that every human started its evolution at the same basic stage;  and has been directing it, for itself, under the general and impartial laws of the universe, at its own rate of advance ever since.  More important:  it posits that every being (from low to high, from small to great) is an independently cooperative immortal.  It lives and has lived with all other beings, and its choices either assist or delaythe joint progress of the whole of nature. 
 
Each such immortal monad, uses many bodies under the general process known as reincarnation, and this proceeds under karma, or the universal law of equity and fair justice for all.  Surely, there can be nothing more democratic than this “equal opportunity” universe ?
 
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Gm
            wouldn’t a logical explanation be that the paper and ink were put there 
by people using ordinary writing implements? What proof do we have 
that there is anything supernatural in their origin?
 
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DTB
            I do notrecall any one claming anything “supernatural” in the production of those letters.
They have always been produced under nature’s laws.  Some weremailed and some “precipitated.”  The method of their production has been explained in detail by the Master writer.
 
However: a recent monograph by Vernon Harrison:  “J’Accuse.” An examination of the Hodgson report of 1885.” ( re:Journal Of The Society For Psychical  Research 53. (April 1896): pp.  286-310) shows in some of its magnified reproductions of the handwriting on the “Mahatma Letters” the evidence of a process usedof embedding the script into the surface fabric of the paper that was not available in those early years in the printing presses of the day.  Asfar as I am aware, this remains unexplained.  It “proves” nothing except that there must have been processes known to the “Mahatmas” that we have yet to discover and use.
 
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Gm
here are some memorable quotes: 

at any rate, we all know, that the heat that the earth receives by radiation from the 
sun is at the utmost one third if not less of the amount received by her directly from the meteors. [blavatsky as Koot Hoomi] (Barker, Mahatma LettersNo. 23b) . . . [ p. 162 ]


the sun we see is not at all the central planet of our little universe, butonly its veil 
or its reflection. [Blavatsky as Koot Hoomi] (Barker, Mahatma Letters no. 23b)  [ p. 163]


==================================
 
DTB
            these statements are made by the Mahatma K H and addressed by him to Mr. Sinnett.  As far as I know they were not from or by Mme. Blavatsky.  
 
It is an assumption made by some later critics after H P B’s death that H P B wrote these. She never claimed to have done that, but she sometimes indicated that she was independently aware of their content. 
 
A study of their style demonstrates they are not hers.  .
 
These are statement of occult fact and science.
 
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Gm
hypnotism, mesmerism, clairvoyance, telepathy, etc. Are now facts acknowledged 
by the scientific world. [theosophical teaching] (pavri 66) . . . 


a civilised (sic) man is wiser than a savage because he has passed through more 
incarnations. [theosophical teaching] (pavri 129) 
 
 
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DTB     
            Who is “Pavri?”  Are these statements made by H P B in some of her writings.?  Do you have references to them ?
 
These may be paraphrased or copied from her writings.  I do not recognize: “Pavri”
 
Let me offer some thoughts on this business of classifying people.  Wedo not know their inner nature nor their leading characteristics.
 
 
            Civilized  Or  Savage   How To Determine?
 
The “civilized man” in our cities, is not necessarily superior to the “savage” in his woods and caverns.  In our cities, if we visit “skid row” within a mile of most of ourbest maintained streets and marts, we find “civilized savages.” The culture of a world at any time includes the contemporary nature of all civilization or non-civilization.  The citizen of a New York, aLondon, a Tokyo, or a Bombay is counterbalanced by the natives of Polynesia, Australia, Alaska, and central Africa.  All contemporaries today.  Why not so in the past?  Europe secured most of her arts and sciences from the East we are taught in school.  We cannot duplicate thepyramids, nor do we know who created the traces of vast irrigation works now lost in the forests and savannas of central Brazil.  We have thousands of ancient temples and structures scattered all over the world (and more in the depths of the oceans), but we cannot account for their builders orfor the methods they used in construction.
 
The “civilized man” shoulders “civilized savages” daily in his rounds.  Does “civilization” indicate today: honesty, justice, probity, generosity, tolerance,,, or, generally, the reverse ?  The “savage” may be noble, altruistic, generous and kind in his own way and in his own milieu.  He (the so-called “civilized”) may be able to use more physical “gadgets” but that gives him no moral or ethical superiority to the needy and poverty stricken “savage” who ought to receive his charity and succor. 
 
In Theosophy the value of a man’s status, be he “civilized” or “savage,” can only be rated in terms of his moral behaviour, and the use he makes of the advantages that  his knowledge has given so freely to him.
 
 
            Responsibility And Capacity
 
The “civilized general” or “businessman, president of a commercial enterprise,” can precipitate far more sorrow and pain on the innocent than the “savage” ever will. On the other hand either of these individuals may do great good in the area of responsibility in which his karma has placed him in.  Their choices count in the total evolution of all nature.  Their status, as others may rate them, is at best, superficial, unless backed by individual brotherly conducttowards others.
 
 
            The RealForce Of Morality And Ethics
 
Theosophy views every condition and capacity, in any life, as an inner environment in which the immortal ego ( spirit/soul/mind) can make decisions which will not only be of benefit to himself, but which can extend the benevolence of a brotherly attitude to many around him, known and unknown.  Thus the effect of living a life of self-control, honesty, sincerity, of study, of benevolence to others is of more value to the world and our universe, than any of the trappings that present society may confer, because of presumed rank, and the responsibilities assumed by any one. 
 
 
            Integrity, Capacity And Honesty
 
The real question is of integrity, capacity and honesty:  does the “man” do the job, or does he pretend to?  If the “power of position” is employed to cover ethical incapacity and moral turpitude, then the sooner such individuals are demoted and replaced, the better.  They not only destroy themselves but they destroy eventually the actuality and potential for service that they are supposed to represent and uphold.  Service is a gift made by the capable to support nature.
 
 
            We Create Our Tomorrows Today
 
It is a recognition of this, as a key factor in our lives, that makes the philosophy of theosophy so valuable to all of us in these days, and for the future.  The future will be built by the echoes and vibrations we create today. The life-atoms we affect today, and imprint with our choices, aretransmitted down the years and centuries to come, up to the time when we reincarnate again, and there we may meet them or their results, for good or ill again.  It is the atoms of our bodies and our environment of this moment that become the “carriers” of our causative “karma” until we have to meet it later on as a result.
 
In the BHAGAVAD GITA (Krishna), the teacher,  makes it clear in several places that:   “The duty of another is full of danger.”
 
 
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Gm

all the charming folk-lore of the elf, the brownie and the gnome, of the spirits of air 
and water, of the forest, the mountain and the mine, is shown by it [theosophy] to be no mere meaningless superstition, but to have a basis of actual and scientific fact behind it. (Leadbeater, invisible helpers 2) 
 
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DTB
            This waswritten after the death of H P B.  The meaning of the author as citedis not clear.
 
For more information on elementals and nature sprites, see H P B’s articles:
 
ELEMENTALS,  [“Lucifer,” August 1893 &  H P B Articles II p. 127] 
 
And 
 
THOUGHTS ON THE ELEMENTALS,  [ “Lucifer,” May 1890  &  H P B Articles, II p. 164]
 
Both explain the nature of the intelligence resident in these nature sprites.
 
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gm
Still the fact remains that most of the planets, like the stars beyond our system, are inhabited . . . . (blavatsky, secret doctrine, vol. 4: 271)  [original 1888 edn.:  s d  ii  701 ]

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DTB
            as I understand it, H P B says here that most suns have planets associated with them and most of those planets are the foci for evolution of intelligence and consciousness -- each in its own way, but similar to the evolution that is proceeding here on our earth.  It is not similar, but analogous.


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m. G. ---
 

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Best wishes,
 
Dallas 


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