Theos-Talk Archives (November 2001 Message tt00226)

Tuesday, November 13, 2001

Tuesday, November 13, 2001

Dear Daniel:


I think the key to describing "Man" is to decide if we are
talking about physiological man, intellectual man or an Ideal
man. To use the term "man" without definition is to allow a
number of factors to be implied without precision. I find in my
studies that a degree of definition is needed to keep my mind on
the question.

H P B provided us with a 7-fold description of our cooperative
assemblage of "principles." and urges us to see how we (as the
Microcosm) had the potentials of the Macrocosm (Nature itself).
But she also seems to place the responsibility for our advance in
our hands, and desired us to use our minds and learn to think. I
have been struggling with that for a long time. I ended up
asking "Why?" -- and seeming the causes for things as I found
them, and for myself.

Let me insert some notes in the text of yours below

Dallas

===============================


-----Original Message-----
From: D----L J H----S
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:54 PM
To:
Subject: Re: past/present/future

Dear Dallas,
Thanks for the reply. I don't believe by far
that man is nothing but a creature, and he has no obligations.

It just sounds like you believe Man can improve on nature, and
you know what happens when we try to do that.

================================

DTB	Not quite: Man is a part of Nature, and Theosophy seems to
place Mankind as a whole in an important position where he is
able to perceive the spiritual side and the material side of
Nature and his environment (and himself, of course).

What in Man enables him to do this? (if what I say is true.)

Man apparently makes contributions to Nature which are either
beneficent or confusing. The difference being "motive." How can
we regulate our motives unless we can see them and control them?

==========================================

I do believe that one of our greatest obligations is to know
ourselves, but I also believe nature is one of the greatest
repositories of accumulated knowledge, and if we would learn to
love and live by its wisdom, the world would be a much happier
place.

===========================================

DTB	Then we have the Karmic "shocks." Those curious and
unexpected accidents (of either good or evil and pan) which
descend on us without any warning/ How did we attract those ?

===========================================

Buddha knew this sitting under the bodhi tree, and Christ knew it
by these words; "And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider
the lilies of the field, how they grow. They toil not, neither
do they spin, and yet I say unto you that even Solomon in all his
glory was not arrayed like one of these."

===========================================

DTB	From all accounts, both Buddha and Christ had to work to
attain their sagacity. The accounts of their struggles have also
been recorded for us. Although they had the same wisdom all can
possess, their manifestation of it came after many years of
efforts to disentangle the true from the false. I imagine we
have to also do something like that, For us, the question is
WHEN ? And we alone decide that.

But "patience" can be carried to an extreme. There are times for
work an times for repose. How do we learn to discriminate
between them?

============================================

And another quote from a Theosophist who I think you know;
"Nature is so beneficent, so ready to heal and bless. When the
pressure of cares and trials is almost too great to be borne and
I feel the need of help in finding a larger patience, I go to
nature, and there I find it again and again. She is the mystic
mother of us all". Katherine Tingley............


She almost sounds Taoist!

=========================================

DTB	No I did not mean going in blindly to mss with Nature's
arrangements. But rather to study, learn and then apply them to
ourselves.




Best Wishes,

Daniel
----- Original Message -----
From: dalval14@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:21 AM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World RE: past/present/future

Tuesday, November 13, 2001

Dear Daniel:

PAST - PRESENT - FUTURE Who or what is CONSCIOUS of it?


It strikes me from what you write that you prefer to think that
man is a "creature" and as such has no obligations. Hence he
ought to pursue a "do nothing" policy, but just patiently wait
for "God" to do it.

As I read and study Theosophy, I seem to read that man's
condition is that of an immortal fraction of the UNIVERSAL DEITY.

As such he has to independently begin assisting NATURE (Deity) in
its work. This involves personal responsibility and work.

It also demands of man that he become wise through study and
practical experience. To do this he has to study Karma and
Nature rules and laws -- present everywhere. He has the
responsibility of making himself wise.

The start of his own personal exertion is as Hermes expressed it:
"Man know thyself." A course of such self-study ism offered in
Theosophical literature as originally written and presented by
Mme. Blavatsky. Opinions concerning this work can only be
offered AFTER due study and becoming familiar with the doctrines
and tenets of Theosophy.

Each one is invited to do this study critically. No one is asked
to accept of faith any statement made which is called
"Theosophical." To develop our own independent capacity to
grasp at TRUTH, however presented is considered to be the most
important step for all of us to take.

MAN IS A FRAGMENT OF UNIVERSAL DEITY

As I see it, Theosophy teaches that : the total thrust of
evolution is to bring man (in whom a fragment of "God" -- or
Divinity -- the Ray of the ONE SPIRIT -- inheres), to cooperative
self-conscious assistance in nature's laws and ways.

The "Unit Ray of SPIRIT" is held to be present in every least
part of the Universe --- from minute to gigantic, fro th sub-atom
to the greatest of UNIVERSES -- all is at base one SPIRIT, and
the SPIRIT is counterbalanced by PURIFIED and ORIGINAL MATTER.
Between these is the ever active aver observing MIND. The
independence of the MIND faculty makes of the Human free and
independent, and requires of him the pursuit of self-education,
self-evolution and the final attainment of WISDOM -- AS THE UNIT
REBECOMES THE WHOLE.


DEITY / GOD is not a PERSONAL BEING

If you like to think of the Universe and of God as entities, then
universality, impersonality, immanence, omnipotence, and
omniscience are the qualities generally ascribed to "God." And
if true, these make of DEITY an impersonal yet ever-present
PRINCIPLE rather than a gigantic Personality. They also being
presenting Man, drive him to improve by his own efforts.

I believe there is a UNIVERSAL SPIRIT -- A "GOD." But this
DEITY is NOT a gigantic MAN. Nor does DEITY accept without
reaction the many kinds of actions, thoughts and feelings that
mankind generates as units.

God is not a "He". Nor are men "creatures." Men are MINDS and
INDEPENDENT within the confines of universal KARMIC LAW that
demands responsibility and justice be observed. Every human MIND
is an indissoluble part of the VAST DEIFIC PRINCIPLE which we
also name the ONE SPIRIT. And, the SPIRIT NEVER RESTS INACTIVE.


SPORT AND ACTIVITY -- PURPOSIVENESS

Some think that all activity is "sport" -- but "sport" also has a
purpose. It is not negligence, nor is it inactivity. In fact
every sport if conducted cooperatively or contentiously, has
common rules of behaviour and progression. Yet, there are some
who advocate repose as some final beatitude, and doing so they
may forget the lessons of boredom -- consequent on an endless
vista of doing nothing in a fog of intangibility.

Now I may be misunderstanding you, but if I am, then correct me,
please.

If you have a reference from theosophical sources that supports
your view I would like to be given an opportunity of reading it.
Please let me know if you have that.

Best wishes,

Dallas

==================================

-----Original Message-----
From: DANIEL J HOUGAS [mailto:younggung36@msn.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 9:33 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: [bn-basic] past/present/future

Dear Dallas,
I don't know if you remember but I have talked
about nature and it's implications. We are a part of nature, and
as a part of nature we are subject to it's laws. Pure and
simple. Because nature is a force that is God, all we have to do
is live rightly in the bounds of nature. God is not wrathful, he
is natural. Toaism comes as close to this as is possible within
the realm of human thought. All this philosophising is basically
nothing but lip service. I know the study is fun, but God has it
in hand, because he created us as an extension of nature in order
to be it's facilitator. The mindful exercise is great, but it is
but sport.
Daniel

CUT




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