Theos-Talk Archives (November 2001 Message tt00184)

<<<I said not all schools of Buddhism accept that, not that all school of specifically Tibetan Buddhism do not. There are Zen masters who would probably laugh at the idea of men becoming animals. This idea is anyway considered by some to be metaphorical. Winston Churchill resembled a bulldog in the eyes of some people, but he was not literally a dog.>>>

JERRY: Steve, yes, I realized that you said Buddhism, but I am more familiar with the Tibetan schools than any other - I studied Zen so many years ago that I have forgotten most of it. Let me say this, that I personally tend to agree with Blavatsky on this one over the Tibetans. I don't know about any "door" closing, but it just seems more logical to reject the idea in favor of it being metaphorical (ie we humans can experience all six kingdoms/realms right now, and many of us, including myself, do).


<<<Whether this idea is accepted in esoteric Tibetan
schools is open to question. I do not follow the DL
and personally do not care what he says.>>>

JERRY: OK. I rather like him, but I do side with Blavatsky on this issue (I tend to be eclectic).


<<<she considers “hell” to be a degraded form of humanity here on earth. But then she says that the mediecal eighth sphere is situated in the moon and that hell (Avici) is located there.>>>

JERRY: I really agree with G de Purucker here, that worrying over "locations" is an exoteric manasic process that has little meaning. I do find Blavatsky's globes and planes model to be useful in my own manasic interpretations, but otherwise it simply confuses a lot of people.


<<<The idea is not that the mineral monad becomes a
vegetable monad. The different kingdoms of monads are supposed to be degrees of differentiation of the
primordial cosmic matter (Mulaprakriti), the first
three being elemental kingdoms. Afterdifferentiation
occurs the monads do not change. This is “explained”
(I use the word advisedly) in FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY. Mysteriously some impulse of some kind migrates from kingdom to kingdom, but this is not made clear.>>>

JERRY: If you add a word, and make it "mayavic degrees of differentiation" I will have no problem at all. Primordial cosmic matter can also be found in the Kalachakra Tantra, where it is usually translated as "space-particles." In esotericism,
the mysterious impulse that migrates is the illusive sense of a separate self at various levels of mayavic manifestation. Blavatsky uses Creators (but these are all personifications) while Buddhism teaches that these primordial particles come
together to form a manvantaric manifestation purely as a result of past karmic forces. One manvantara gives way to another karmically, just as one person'life gives way to the next by the force of its own karmic momentum.


<<<Also, monads as differentiated entities are not
eternal. It is the primordial cosmic substance from
which they are differentiated which is eternal. All
differentiations are supposed to be resolved back into unity at the time of Maha Pralaya, so the theory goes.>>>

JERRY: This is what I have been saying, but so far Dallas and Peter and others can't go along with it - but hopefully they will in time.


<<<Theosophists generally are opposed to anything
practical, and are members of the Read Only School.>>>

JERRY: Yeah, don't I know it.


<<<The way it has been explained to me, eyeballing ink marks on a piece of paper and therefore employing only the Eyes is the superior Heart Doctrine, whereas trying to get to the heart of the matter through direct experience is the vastly inferior Eye Doctrine. When I hear that I am tempted to say “Come again?” But then I think better of it and keep silent. Hearing it once is quite enough.>>>

JERRY: Theosophists overvalue manas, and have way too
much trust in it. For example, Dallas likes to say that manas is a tool - but apparently doesn't realize that it is indeed a useful tool but ONLY after the atma-buddhi-manas triad has been merged together by the Adept. Until then, it is "the slayer of the real."


<<<Rising on the Planes is a stripped down version of the ancient Merkabah meditation, which HPB mentions briefly. Its (original) purpose is to commune with angels and other superhuman beings.
Steve>>>

JERRY: Exactly. The GD and OTO use it for a daily exercise, for just such purposes. I have used it myself for many years. It begins as a mental imagination process, but then eventually becomes an actual OBE-type experience. The idea of actually experiencing atma-buddhi directly is feared by many Theosophists, and is strongly discouraged. They would prefer to parrot Blavatsky's written words and play manasic games (but I may be too hard here, and did, after all, use the word many rather than all).

Thanks, Steve.

Jerry S.
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