Theos-Talk Archives (November 2001 Message tt00057)

(1) In an Oct 7th posting to Universal Seekers [a Yahoo! Group], Bill 
Meredith wrote:

"KH and M are presented as individual entities to whom HPB prostrated
herself in an almost worshipful adoration."

The above quoted from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalSeekers/message/1961

(2) To Bill's statement, Brigitte Muehlegger wrote:

"Where are there as much as eyewittnes reports of instances where they
saw HPB ever prostrating herself to any individuals going by the name
of KH and M ?"

"The ONLY reporting known is of people prostrating themselves in the
pressence of HPB." caps added

The above quoted from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalSeekers/message/1972

(3) To Brigitte's question, Marina Sisson replied:

"There is a report in a letter from Master KH to Sinnett (ML-54 or
MLcron-92) referring to HPB prostrating herself to them."

The above quoted from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalSeekers/message/1979

(4) Bill then replied to Marina's posting:

"Thanks Marina. I recall another instance [of HPB prostrating herself
to the Masters] which I think is referenced in the exchanges between
KPJ and Daniel Caldwell that are posted on Daniel's site. Something
about when one of the Master's summoned her telepathically and she
came a running. I don't have time right now to go searching so I
could be wrong. At any rate your cite seems to answer the mail to
Brigitte."

The above quoted from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalSeekers/message/1980

(5) Marina replied to Bill:

"Hi Bill, I think the passage you are mentioning is the one [below]:

"This same Brother once visited me in the flesh at Bombay, coming in
full day light, and on horseback. He had me called by a servant into
the front room of H.P.B.'s bungalow (she being at the time in the
other bungalow talking with those who were there). He [Morya] came to
scold me roundly for something I had done in T.S. matters, and as
H.P.B. was also to blame, he telegraphed to her to come, that is to
say, he turned his face and extended his finger in the direction of
the place she was in. She came over at once with a rush, and seeing
him dropped to her knees and paid him reverence. My voice and his had
been heard by those in the other bungalow, but only H.P.B. and I, and
the servant saw him." (Extract from a letter written by Colonel Olcott
to A.O. Hume on Sept. 30, 1881. Quoted in Hints On Esoteric Theosophy,
No. 1, 1882, p. 80.)"

The above quoted from:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalSeekers/message/1982

(6) Brigitte then wrote the following:

"In refference to the statement . . . [by Olcott about the Brother on
horseback]send by Marina. . . I think one has to study the whole,
including the circumstances in india that time. In my opinion the most
logical conclussian from the situation is that it was someone
associated with the Singh Sabha."

The above quoted from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalSeekers/message/1990

I would like to make several comments here on what Brigitte Muehlegger
has written above.

I find it strange that Brigitte does NOT make any direct comment on
Olcott's specific statement which reads:

"She [HPB] came over at once with a rush, and seeing him [Master
Morya] dropped to her knees and paid him reverence."

Please keep in mind that the subject under discussion in the above
Items (1) through (5) was on this specific topic YET BRIGITTE IS
SILENT ON THE VERY POINT UNDER DISCUSSION.

For reasons best known to her, Brigitte chooses to IGNORE the "HPB
prostrating to the Masters" issue and instead writes:

"In my opinion the most logical conclussian from the situation is that
it was someone associated with the Singh Sabha."

What does Brigitte mean by this statement? I will address this later
in another posting.

But back to the "HPB prostrating to the Masters" issue.

Looking through all the relevant postings (dated October 7 through Oct
20, 2001)in the archives of Universal Seekers, I cannot find where
Brigitte Muehlegger DIRECTLY deals with Olcott's statement that:

"She [HPB] came over at once with a rush, and seeing him [Master
Morya]dropped to her knees and paid him reverence."

The fact of the matter is that Marina Sisson produced Olcott's account
which showed that there was at least one instance of an eyewitness
report of HPB prostrating herself. See item (2) at the beginning of
this posting.

If Brigitte doubted Olcott's 1879 account (or parts of it), why did
she not come right out directly and say so in plain and simple
English? Why did she not frankly explain to Marina her reasoning as a
good scholar would do? [For additional comments, see footnote at 
bottom of posting.]

(7) On Oct 21, Brigitte wrote a new posting that included the
following exerpts:

". . . I added as a third aspect in one of my previous mails:
Reg.:'KH and M are presented as individual entities to whom HPB
prostrated herself in an almost worshipful adoration.'"

"Where are there as much as eyewittnes reports of instances where they
saw HPB ever prostrating herself to any individuals going by the name
of KH and M ?"

"The only reporting known is of people prostrating themselves in the
presence of HPB. . . . "

". . . Marina responded with showing a 'Master letter' where it is
'written' that reverence is shown by HPB to the Masters, however that
is just a letter and not anybody seeing it; 'Where are there as much
as eyewittnes reports of instances where they saw HPB ever prostrating
herself to any individuals going by the name of KH and M?' "

The above quoted from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalSeekers/message/2141

At this point in Brigitte's text, you would have thought that Brigitte
would deal directly with the other piece of evidence Marina ALSO gave,
i.e., Olcott's testimony which reads in part:

"She [HPB] came over at once with a rush, and seeing him [Master
Morya] dropped to her knees and paid him reverence."

But no, Brigitte --- for reasons best known to her --- does NOT 
mention the most relevant evidence. Not a word about it and certainly 
no explanation in this posting of Oct. 21st.

Continued in Part II

Daniel H. Caldwell
BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES
http://hpb.cc

----------------------------
FOOTNOTE TO ITEM 6:

It is true that when Marina on another matter quoted an
account by Olcott about "Hamlet, one of our Brothers" appearing at
"Worlee Bridge," Bombay to HPB, Damodar and Olcott, Brigitte wrote:

"In the new example you [Marina] give we are only shown that HPB
indeed knew 'people' in India. With the interest she had in religion
and the mysterious east it is not surprising that she attempted to
make contacts with pandits (those who have knowledge of the religious
scriptures ) and others. . . . And so now we have these dubious but
not entirely untrue, reportings. But why give suppernatural
explanations to events that can be explained in a normal way ?"

The above quoted from:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniversalSeekers/message/1997

Possibly Brigitte will say these comments just quoted apply ALSO to
the "HPB prostrating to a Master" account by Olcott. If these remarks
do apply to the account under consideration, Brigitte again does NOT
explain explicitly what is dubious or supernatural about this account.

The fact remains that Brigitte did not deal DIRECTLY with the "HPB
prostrating to a Master" account by Olcott when Marina first quoted
Olcott's testimony.
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