Theos-Talk Archives (October 2001 Message tt00240)

Wednesday, October 17, 2001


Dear Peter, Jerry, et all


Most interesting response and view point Peter. Enjoyed reading
it.

I think you are right and if Jerry could advance his sources for
us as a sharing, we might be able to see how his view point
develops.

I think all students of Theosophy welcome joint investigation, as
there is a certain increment in safety (as regards accuracy and
discernment) when several work on the same subject.

I really would like to understand his point of view.


ANATTA -- NOTHINGNESS


Take ANATTA (Nothingness) It might just as well be a plenum
(Everything).

It is only one pole of the equation. To obtain perspective or
use of the concept one needs the other 2 participating Qualities.
In the B Gita Krishna, speaking as the MAHA-VISHNU, the
PRESERVER of the UNIVERSES, says: "O Arjuna I created this
whole Universe out of a single portion of myself and remain
separate."

He then outlines the three Gunas (qualities or limitations in
matter and evolution, which represent the totality of existence
and the CAUSE for progress inherent in all beings.

He states these three Gunas (qualities) equilibrizes one another:
SATTVA (Truth, Wisdom, Purity) -- RAJAS (Activity, Thought,
desire, reasoned or chaotic actions) -- TAMAS (Inertia,
matter, form, immobility, selfishness and the isolation of
ignorance).

NOTHINGNESS : To me it simply means NOT MATTER OF THIS PLANE.
But then could it be "matter" of another plane, in which case the
parameters of that level of substance or matter would be
interesting to look into. We speak of ANATTA because of our
(matter-limited) unfamiliarity with states of matter other than
those we encounter here in this 3-dimensional space {SECRET
DOCTRINE I 142, 201fn, 673, II 700fn ]

The interesting thing is that we as THINKERS are willing to
consider this paradoxical antithesis to our own existence and
ascribe to it since ancient times, names and qualities. This
indicates to me that it is known and its existence is surmised if
not defined. I give a list below.

In search of "No-Thing" or nothing I found references in The
SECRET DOCTRINE such as

A-RUPA (No form) S D I 571; 214, 350, II 126;

Ain-Soph or the ENDLESS ABSOLUTE , S D I 214, 340 353-4; II
111, [above MAYA I 54fn]

BEGINNINGLESS and SEXLESS S D I 351;

CHAOS, VOID, SPACE: S D I 109, 214, 343, II 126

DABAR S D I 350;

"GOD" is Nothing S D I 352; and, the

PARABRAHM: S D I 391, 571; S D II 128, 553;

Symbol used to signify NOTHING is a CIRCLE II 553.

sometimes a PYRAMID was used as a symbol: S D I 617;

UNKNOWABLE and UNNAMABLE: S D II 41, 128, 472,

ZEROANA AKERNE: S D I 113;


On SECRET DOCTRINE I 59 FN I read: "Parabrahmam is the
SUBSTANCE--changeless, eternal, and incognizable--and Chit
(Atma), and Achit (Anatma) are its qualities, as form and color
are the qualities of any object. The two are the garments, or
body, or rather attribute (Sarira) of Parabrahmam. But an
Occultist would find much to say against this claim, and so would
the Adwaitee Vedantin."

On page ( S D, Vol I, 288fn) we read: "...Chiti...that by which
the effects and consequences of actions and kinds of knowledge
are selected for the use of the soul." or conscience the INNER
Voice in man. With the Yogis, the Chiti is a synonym of Mahat,
the first and divine intellect; but in Esoteric philosophy,
Mahat is the root of Chiti, its germ; and Chiti is a quality of
Manas in conjunction with Buddhi, a quality that to itself by
spiritual affinity a Chitkala when it develops sufficiently in
man. This is why it is said that Chiti is a voice acquiring
mystic life and becoming "KWAN YIN." [S D I 288 fn ]

A little above the nature of the Chitkala is said to be the Devas
(MAHATMA LETTERS 107), Dhyan Chohans, ...some of which are those
who have furnished man with his 4th and 5th Principles (Kama and
Manas) from their own essences; and others the Pitris
so-called...."]

In regard to KWAN-YIN we find in S D I 471-2 some interesting
statements: "Kwan-shi-Yin is Avalokiteshwara [ THE
THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY , p. 44: "...in esoteric philosophy
Avaloki, the "on-looker" is the HIGHER SELF,... the Logos, both
celestial and human...] ... while Padmapani is the HIGHER EGO or
MANAS...the spiritual reflex of Avalokiteshwara in the world of
forms --of Padmapani ... see MAHATMA LETTERS, pp. 343-346] ...the
7th Universal Principle,. .the synthetic aggregation of all the
planetary Spirits, Dhyan Chohans. ...the universal Saviour of
all living beings. ...KWAN-YIN is a perfect
equivalent......[these] are the gods of chastity among the Yogis
of Tibet ...the divine SELF perceived by Self....the Atman or
7th principle merged in the Universal, perceived by, or the
object of perception to, Buddhi, the 6th principle or divine Soul
in man. ...Kwan-shi-Yin ...the 7th Universal principle, is the
Logos perceived by the Universal Buddhi--or Soul, as the
synthetic aggregate of the Dhyani-Buddhas ... the omnipresent
universal Spirit manifested in the temple of Kosmos or Nature.
...Kwan-shi-Yin and Kwan-Yin are the 2 aspects (male and female)
of the same principle in Kosmos, Nature and Man, of divine wisdom
and intelligence. They are the "Christos-Sophia" of the mystic
Gnostics--the Logos and its Sakti. -- and there is more --
all to be carefully assimilated. This can also be said to be
referenced to S D I 570-575.

Apparently, and strictly in metaphysics, once that one passes
through the Laya center between the ABSOLUTE and the manifested,
and regardless of the level of Wisdom that any entity may have
achieved (the highest Dhyani Buddhas), all becomes SUBSTANCE of
some kind and is thereafter limited in Time -- even if extremely
great --, Space and in Intelligence. However the ONE
CONSCIOUSNESS resides at all time within the ABSOLUTE. It
manifestation is through the divine Mind or Mahat. The struggle
of Manas to become one with the ABSOLUTE is continuous and
provides the concept of ever-living-ness or immortality, as this
STRUGGLE IS NEVER FULLY RESOLVED.

One might further surmise: The difference between emanation and
radiation needs to be studied [see TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY
LODGE, pp 94-5] "Radiation is...the unconscious and spontaneous
shooting forth, the action of a something from which this act
takes place; but emanation is something from which another thing
issues in a constant efflux, and emanates consciously
....Radiation can come from the Absolute: Emanation cannot. ...
One difference exists in the idea that Radiation is sure, sooner
or later, to be withdrawn again ... while Emanation runs into
other emanations and is thoroughly separated and differentiated.
Of course at the end of the cycle of time emanation will also be
withdrawn into the One Absolute, but meanwhile, during the entire
cycle of changes ... emanation will persist. ... emanation is
equivalent to Evolution, while Radiation represents ... in the
PRE-COSMIC period of course--an instantaneous action like that of
a piece of paper set on fire under a burning glass, of which the
Sun knows nothing..." [Trans. 94-5; BLAVATSKY: Collected
Works (TPH) Vol 10 ]

More is then said about this in terms of Consciousness as it
passes through the 7 planes. But that is the on-going study,
life after life that we are all going through. "Veil after veil
will lift, but there must be veil upon veil behind." The pupil
must hold tenaciously to the mental vision of his own
IMMORTALITY. and that he is ONE WITH ALL. This is summarized in
the phrase UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD.


Best wishes,

Dallas

================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Merriott [mailto:nous@btinternet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 3:58 AM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Theos-World Re to Brigitte - to Dallas


> DALLAS: But the real effort was to redirect everyone's
attention to such
> concepts as:

> 1. the immortality of the Human EGO, the SPIRITUAL IMMORTAL
SELF,>>>>
>
>

> JERRY: I do not subscribe to any such "immortality." I believe
that you
got this idea (and many others) by taking Blavatsky's words out
of context. I do not
> think that your continual promotion of this immortality
business is doing
> anyone any good.
===============================

Peter:

Jerry,

I don't believe Dallas has taken this idea "out of context". I
think it may
well be you who does not seem to understand the context in which
Dallas and
HPB (and indeed the Mahatmas) write on this subject.

I don't have any doubt that HPB and the Mahatmas were thoroughly
acquainted
with the doctrine of anatta as taught in Buddhism. We find them
applying
this same doctrine to the personal self (rather the non-self of
the
skandhas) over and over again. Yet being aware of this they
still
emphasized the nature of the Individuality and 'immortality' of
the
Spiritual Ego (as distinct from the personal ego) - even an
'Individuality'
of the Monad which lasts through the great Paranirvana
(Maha-Pralaya) and
emerges again at the next Maha-Manvantara.

For as long as you/we project the qualities of the personality
onto the
Individuality these more complex and deeper doctrines of
Theosophy will
always remain obscure. I think we need to get beyond dictionary
and
exoteric definitions which is all 'lower manas' mentality and try
to
understand the deeper meaning in these teachings.

If you really believe Dallas has taken these ideas out of context
then
please bring forward what HPB and the Mahatmas "actually" say on
this
subject and offer your own explanation of what it is they really
mean.
There are a number of very knowledgeable students of Theosophy on
this list,
I am sure they would welcome a genuine discussion on this
important topic.
We need more than just disparaging statements about fellow
students and
their views.

...Peter