Theos-Talk Archives (October 2001 Message tt00041)

Tuesday, October 02, 2001

Dear Friends:

As far as I can see this confuses.

These are not the divisions that H.P.Blavatsky gave us, but were
presented by other students after her death. The use of the
Sanskrit terms or designations, without any explanation
concerning their inter-relation, (and why is this not given for
the benefit of non-Sanskrit readers?) leaves the average student
guessing as whether they are valuable or not.

In effect it is a claim to some knowledge the exact source and
value of which is nebulous.

Further they have the tendency to make H.P.Blavatsky's teachings
on behalf of the Masters appear as fragmentary.

I ask: How many of us have actually studied The SECRET DOCTRINE
to see if such definitions are included there or are necessary?

Do the names of these "planes" give us a sense of a
materialization of concepts>? So we get from them any assistance
in regulating and improving our own daily lives? In what way can
this be translated into improved practice of the knowledge of
Karma, Reincarnation and the cooperative evolution of all beings?

Best wishes,

Dallas

================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 12:30 PM
To: sd@blavatsky.net
Subject: [bn-sd] Re: Stanza III, Sloka 1 PARABRAHM and other
States and Conditions

Per Julian Johnson in Path of the Masters

First grand division - Top down

Anami Lok
Agam Lok
Alakh Lok
Sach Kand [also called Mukan Haq by Mohammedan saints]

Second grand division is called Brahmanda

Top of Brahmanda - called Par Brahm (beyond the worlds of Brahm)
Lower part - called Trikuti

And so forth

He states "..there is not only one Brahm, but countless numbers
of Brahms,
who are governors over so many Brahmandas...."

Hope this helps !







----- Original Message -----
From: Ramprakash <ult_blr@vsnl.net>
To: <sd@blavatsky.net>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 10:50 AM
Subject: [bn-sd] Re: Stanza III, Sloka 1 PARABRAHM and other
States and
Conditions


> That will take us no where.
>
> If our friend will take the trouble of acquainting himself
with the
> basic propositions of the S.D. and axioms of Cosmogony and
Anthropogony
such
> discussions as is being attempted by him to be introduced into
the on line
> S.D. study would be worse than useless, as it would only lead
the earnest
> learners who are keen to study the philosophy to confusion.
>
> If our friend cannot find time to bring forward citations
of verses
from
> the scriptures, as requested, in order to examine it in the
light of
> Theosophy, and



NO ONE INSISTS ON ANYTHING ! This are just additional peices of
info for
true seekers to puruese if they so desire.


yet insist on forcing a dubious point , is unfair.


>
> It is up to the moderator to decide whether such useless
contributions
> are allowed at all in the SD study.
>
> RP
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Enter your name here <mb1234@ix.netcom.com>
> To: <sd@blavatsky.net>
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 7:32 PM
> Subject: [bn-sd] Re: Stanza III, Sloka 1 PARABRAHM and other
States and
> Conditions
>
>
> I don't have the time right now to dig thru the Zand Avesta or
S Sutra,
but
> I suggest that anyone interested consider getting a copy of
Path of the
> Masters or Sar Bachan. I know that it is clearly defined easy
to find per
> the opinion of those authors and that they use the term
Parabrahm to mean
a
> very high part of creation , but not the ultimate my any means.
Generally
> they divide beingness into three broad categories. The first
division is
the
> so-called God region which they say is "ruled" by "Sat Nam" and
higher
> manifestations of the Supreme being. The 2 lower regions are
the
> spirito-material (more spiritual essense) regions and the
other is the
> material-spiritual region (more material essense).
> Michael
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Merriott <nous@btinternet.com>
> To: <sd@blavatsky.net>
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 8:12 AM
> Subject: [bn-sd] Re: Stanza III, Sloka 1 PARABRAHM and other
States and
> Conditions
>
>
> > Dear Michael & Jerome,
> >
> > I think we probably need to define our terms. What does
"Parabrahm"
mean
> > when used by HPB and her Teachers? Is it the same meaning
given to that
> > term when it is used by other teachers?
> >
> > Michael, if what you say is correct and the term Parabrahm is
used in
the
> > Surangama Sutra and the Zend Avesta it would be helpful if
you offered
us
> an
> > example of its use from those two texts. Then we could form
some idea
if
> we
> > are talking about the same thing ie the same term with the
same meaning
> > given it.
> >
> > The way it is used by HPB and her Teachers, especially in the
Secret
> > Doctrine, is that it refers to 'THAT' which is beyond the
highest
> creative
> > cause of any and all manifested universes. The word 'cause'
is itself
> > misleading but I hope it will do for the present. There are
endless
> > universes each with their own 'levels' of highest to lowest,
each having
> its
> > own 'highest cause'. The latter is often designated as the
First
Logos
> of
> > any system. It is sometimes symlolised as the point within
the Circle.
> It
> > is the ever unmanifested of that particular system, just as
Atma is the

> ever
> > unmanifested in the sevenfold human being - yet it eternally
IS. We
might
> > say the First Logos is like the seed which carries within it
the Divine
> Plan
> > and all the potencies which will later become that particular
Universe
of
> > Spirit-Matter. It IS the plan, so to speak. The 3rd Logos
is the
> > collective force of creators and intelligences in which the
Divine Plan
is
> > reflected and which bring all its potencies into
manifestation.
> >
> > Speaking of the Logos in his "Discourses on the Bhagavad
Gita", Subba
Row
> (a
> > chela of HPB's Teacher) writes:
> >
> > "It is the first gnatha or the ego in the cosmos, and every
other ego
and
> > every other self.. is but its reflection of manifestation.
In its
inmost
> > nature it is not unknowable as [is] Parabrahm, but it is an
object of
the
> > highest knowledge that man is capable of acquiring. It is the
one great
> > mystery in the cosmos, with reference to which all the
intitiations and
> all
> > the systems of philosophy have been devised. . . It exists in
a latent
> > condition in the bosom of Parabrahmam, at the time of pralaya
just, for
> > instance, as the sense of ego is latent at the time of
sushupti or
sleep.
> > It is often described in our books as satchitanandam, and by
this
epithet
> > you must understand that it is SAT, and that it is CHIT and
ANANDAM. . .
.
> > It has consciousness and an individuality of its own. I may
as well say
> > that it is the only 'personal' God, perhaps, that exists in
the cosmos.
> But
> > not to cause any misunderstanding I must also state that such
centres of
> > energy are almost inumerable in the bosom of Parabrahm. It
must not be
> > supposed that this LOGOS is but a single centre of energy
which is
> > manifested by Parabrahmam. There are inumberable others.
Perhaps even
in
> > this centre of energy called the Logos there may be
differences; that is
> to
> > say, Parabrhamam can manifest itself as a Logos not only in
one
particular
> > definite form, but in various forms." (pages 8-9)
> >
> > Now each of these inumerable Logoi, the highest in its own
Universe or
> > Cosmos, may appear in the sciptures to describe itself as
Parabrahm.
> Subba
> > Row points out this is what Krishna (the Logos) does in the
Bhagavad
Gita,
> > but this is only in the sense that all sons of 'God' speak of
themselves
> as
> > one with the Father.
> >
> > "Thus Krishna only calls upon Arjuna to worship his own
highest spirit,
> > through which he alone can hope to attain salvation. Krishna
is
teaching
> > Arjuna what the Logos in the course of intiation will teach
the human
> monad,
> > pointing out that through himself alone is to be obtained
salvation.
This
> > implies no idea of a personal god." (page v)
> >
> > So there may well be infinite universes, Logoi, 'manifesting'
in the
womb
> of
> > SPACE. However, we get a sense that Parabrahm is 'that which
is truly
> > beyond' all of these. It is the ONE ABSOLUTE and secondless
REALITY,
> > infinite, without limits and ever incognisable. In the first
symbol of
the
> > PROEM (page 1 of the SD) it is symbolised as the dull black
ground of
the
> > Circle. In Kabalistic terms we may think of it as the same
as AIN SOPH.
> > Kether, perhaps, being synonymous with the 1st Logos.
> >
> > In a metaphysical sense there can only be one Parabraham, one
ABSOLUTE,
> one
> > SELF-EXISTENT REALITY, one INFINITE. For there to be more
than one begs
> the
> > questions "what is beyond all those many 'parabrahms'; how do
they come
> into
> > being; what is THAT which transcends them all; what is that
which is
truly
> > infinite, the one secondless REALITY?"
> >
> > Just some thoughts,
> >
> > best wishes,
> >
> > ...Peter
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com]
> > > Sent: 30 September 2001 20:51
> > > To: sd@blavatsky.net
> > > Subject: [bn-sd] Re: Stanza III, Sloka 1 PARABRAHM and
other States
and
> > > Conditions
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear soul,
> > > Much of the info about additional planes beyond PBrahma are
taken
> > > from books
> > > written waybefore HPB was alive. The writings of Nanak and
Kabir are
> just
> > > some of the references. The Surangama Sutra of Buddism, the
Zend
Avesta
> of
> > > Zorasterisam and the Adi Granth of the Sikhs may be other
places
> > > to look if
> > > you are interested.
> > <snip>
> > > Take care,
> > > Michael
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to bn-sd as:
[mb1234@ix.netcom.com]
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> leave-bn-sd-6903134G@lists.lyris.net
> >
>
>
> ---
>
> You are currently subscribed to bn-sd as: [ult_blr@vsnl.net]
> To unsubscribe, forward this message to
leave-bn-sd-6903134G@lists.lyris.net
>
>
>
> ---
>
> You are currently subscribed to bn-sd as:
[mb1234@ix.netcom.com]
> To unsubscribe, forward this message to
leave-bn-sd-6903134G@lists.lyris.net
>


---

You are currently subscribed to bn-sd as:
[dalval14@earthlink.net]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to
leave-bn-sd-6903134G@lists.lyris.net