Theos-Talk Archives (October 2001 Message tt00003)

Monday, October 01, 2001

Re:	PRAYER and PRAYERS


Dear Rodolfo:


Would it not be a good idea to ask ourselves what is PRAYER?

1.	What is a Prayer? A request, a demand, a --- what ?

2.	To WHOM OR TO WHAT is it to be addressed?

3.	Does it request special ( i.e., personal), or general (i.e.,
impersonal and universal) attention? Do we actually believe
that GOD does not know what is going on, and has had no hand in
its planning and development? Is it not an impertinence of ours
to try and tell Him that we are dissatisfied with His management?

4.	What exactly is a "faith?" Does it mean a reasoned set of
propositions concerning the rules and government of our World and
the Kosmos? Does it mean only some specific rites and
regulations relating to a particular "faith?" Does it relate
solely to our "faith" or doe the views of God and "His works"
include our little earth lost in the infinitudes of vast space?

5.	What is a "belief?" Is it a statement of certain well
ascertainable "facts in nature" that we can inquire into,
investigate and prove? [ I mean like the rules of Mathematics,
chemistry, physics, astronomy, engineering, etc... ] Or, does it
consist in certain dogmas and statements which we are prohibited,
or discouraged from investigating? Are those stated logically or
not? And how is it possible, if a portion of God is also within
us, to tell us that we may not inquire? Is it an expression of
KNOWLEDGE or of ignorance ?

6.	Since every human being is called and designated a "Child of
God" then, regardless of how the "God" is named by us, IT is
UNIVERSAL, IMPERSONAL, SUPPORTIVE OF LIFE, the creator and
sustainer of all things as they have been and now are? Why
should any one be excluded from the universal GOD principle? Do
catastrophes occur because of Karma? Are all who are involved
receiving some effect due to their Karma?

7.	Is "GOD" a Person or a Power that is universal. ? If the
UNIVERSE (and our world and our own physical being) are the "body
of God manifest," then how can anything occur which has not had
God's prior attention and sanction? Is Karma not an expressions
of "As you sow, so shall you reap." -- that statement is found
in every religion. Not everyone trusts it, or believes in it,
and many hope to "escape" its effects returning to them.

8.	Are we debarred from inquiring into the purposes, objectives,
and methods of God's work? After all GOD IS WITHIN US to some
extent, so it is not impertinent or sacrilegious to make such an
honest inquiry. Should not that "Ray" of God within each of us
be able to answer our mental inquiry? How does one become wise
unless it is through continued inquiry into God's ways?

9.	Is our view (and that of our :belief") so vast as to include
the WHOLE UNIVERSE ( 50 billion years old, and an immeasurable
size) with our "personal God's purview ? Is it possible that our
view of the Power of our Earthly God is not UNIVERSAL ? [ As an
analogy, it is like a single citizen in our nation asking if the
rules and regulations of his existence are identical with those
of a citizen of INDIA, or of Patagonia -- the answer would be:
"No, not exactly, but they might be similar."


When it comes to Prayer, let us see what the original teachings
given to us by H.P.Blavatsky say:


If we use the INDEX to the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) we find a
number of interesting entries:

p. 10 mediation is unuttered prayer; ( But, what is
meditation? )
66 verbal and will prayer	( What is the difference between
"word" and "thought?" )
67	Father in Heaven -- its esoteric meaning ( Is this not the
God within ?)
68-70 an occult process
70-1	prayer and action	( does not a thought and a choosing
precede all acts ?)
72	prayer does not teach or encourage self-reliance ( Why is
self-reliance essential?)
198	Karma cannot be turned aside by prayer. ( How does the
equity of KARMA work?)


>From the INDEX to The SECRET DOCTRINE


SECRET DOCTRINE I

p. 280fn	to Father in Secret ( True worship )

416, 467-9	Prayer can be BLACK MAGIC if used personally for
self-benefit,
or for revenge against another

We have to always remember that in our innermost essence we are
all IMMORTAL BEINGS. No matter how horrible, or how peaceful is
the departure of the Inner spirit from its body, the even is
regulated by the personal Karma of the EGO, the Spiritual Mind
being that we are in our essence.

We also have to remember that Nature, (GOD, the UNIVERSE) does
not work haphazardly. It runs under laws which include all
beings who have an affinity for certain events, peaceful or
cataclysmic. But there are some sequences and causes which we
cannot determine as of origin in this lifetime -- they come from
our past lives, and represent some unsettle balance which is now
being adjusted.

This is not extending "cold comfort." But is a warm and
heart-felt way in which to give true comfort to any one who is
closely affected -- the continuity of the glorious SPIRIT IN MAN,
the continuity of life's efforts to become wise, the fact that
Karma adjusts all causes to their effects. There is no question
that the world has receive a violent "awakening." How many will
begin to seek in their own lives for potential causes that made
them participate near by or remotely in this?

Is this not far better than making prayers to a questionable
"Personal god" who may or may not respond in the way we hope may
happen, but who never explains?

I hope this proves valuable,

Dallas

=====================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo Guzman
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 4:29 PM
To:
Subject: Prayer from a theosophical point of view

Dear Friends:

Since at this time of crisis millions are turning to prayer
within their
respective faith traditions, myself included, I am interested to
know how
the members of the theosophical community regard the subject of
prayer. I
am aware of the views of HP Blavatsky and, although they seem
antagonistic
to certain prayer traditions, this misunderstanding seems to me
to be
mainly skin deep, since many of her views are in harmony with
many aspects
of prayer practiced in the different faith traditions, especially
in their
more mystical or liberal forms.

I am extremely interested about the different ideas and opinions
our website members may have on this matter. I will not comment
much further since I am new to the theosophical
tradition and wish to know more about the opinions of more
advanced students.

R--- G---