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Mar 03, 2001 03:21 PM
by dalval14
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Friday, March 02, 2001 Re: Centralizing Intelligence. How, Where, Why? How big? DearM====,: I would
say “the wider and the longer the search brings ultimately the best
results.” Your continued
persistence and devotion to your own progress has to bring results. But I think there is more to yourquest
than self-improvement. What about
your relation with others, first those closest to you, and then the rest ? Are the answers you receive in any way
satisfactory? Do they assistAt all
in self-evaluation? Are you wiser
today than you were say, a year or so ago? One thing Theosophy
puts forward as important to you is a survey of your reason for doing anything.
Your motive counts all the time. Is
it not a link between the
physically oriented brain-mind of now, and the Mind that speaks to you from inside and says: “You have no boundaries except those
you make. You are immortal. Make
the most of the present life.” Of course
you may reject that idea. But then
of what value is all your querying and search and work? What is the final result? As to a “centralizing
intelligence -- what size? How would
it regulate the extremely small (sub-atomic) with the extremely large (to us)
of the KOSMIC SCALES and GALAXIES ?
Would such an INTELLIGENCE need deputies with plenipotentiary powers
locate (in harmony with ITSELF) at many locations in the manifested UNIVERSE
? If so, then how would any such
agents be selected and would they have regulated as well as regulatory powers? What criteria for performance would be
envisaged for them prior to being trusted with supervision? Why is any supervision needed? Can the UNIVERSAL LAWS (if they exist)
be twisted made into a discord and broken? What would be the results? What kind of being would have that kind of power? I find so
many questions arising from your proposition, it is almost overwhelming -- one
might need a MANUAL ON UNIVERSE MANAGEMENT preceded by a MANUAL ON GALACTICAND
SOLAR-SYSTEM MANAGEMENT, and prior to that, a MANUAL ON WORLD MANAGEMENT --and
do on until one has to find a MANUAL ON SUB-ATOMIC PARTICLE MANAGEMENT. Of course
if there are analogies between all these mythical manuals, then we need only
refer to size and area to determine which is the most valuable. But we seem to be at the stage when we
are just beginning to perceive the existence and need for such instruction on
things already in place. Suddenly
we realize that the UNIVERSE is not only SELF-GOVERNING but it has ALL THE
RULES AND REGULATIONS ALREADY FUNCTIONING IN PLACE. We are just discovering some of them. In any case, if you have looked into
some medical manuals recently on anatomy, physiology, etc.. you will be seeing
how the human body, small in comparison to our world or Universe is yet a most
complex harmony of heterogeneous structures each interacting and
interpenetrating others so as to keep “us” alive and relativelywell. But,as
additional food for our thinking together, Let me
give an example, which might be personal to you, and on the other hand it might
really deal with me also, as well as with someone else: Do you
really want to learn TRUTH ? Or do
you merely want to be read and heard by many? Are you seeking to learn about your INNER SELF, or, do you
wish merely to be kind of broadcasting machine: asking endless questions and not profiting from the answers? Who wins this contest? In the first case to STUDY means to
consider and analyze everything. It is seeking the ROOT of the superficial and
physical phenomena side of our day to day life and aspirations and plans. For
everything -- a thought, a feeling, a desire, an impulse to act, and finally
the action itself is moved from WITHIN each INDIVIDUAL. Of course he is affected by his present
personality and this includes habits, culture, educations, parentage, heredity
and a number of factors which science and psychology TRY TO UNRAVEL. They are still at it, and if theylimit
themselves to the superficial physical, it is clear to any true scientist that
the final EFFECTS we start from in chemistry or physics, are only the result of
ANTECEDING CAUSES which we have still to discover. Additionally,
he (you, me and everybody else) is touched by all that surrounds him and
impacts in and on his living. But
while we are at it let’s recognize again that our UNIVERSE is more ofa
COSMOS (run under and by universal
laws) than a CHAOS which may be recognized in some parts of distant and
seemingly nascent universes (as modern astronomy shows us) . I really enjoyed some of the pictures
published in the past 3 years of these phenomena Let me
draw another analogy. One approaches the center of Paris which is entirely
covered with a dense fog or low cloud.
Seemingly from beneath we see an object: It is the topmost floor of the Eifel Tower. Now, supposing we were trying the
describe the Eifel tower with its enormous structure and complexity (which we
may have seen) to another, when all one can see of it in this illustration is
the very top floor -- and the rest is shrouded in almost impenetrable
mists. All the necessary
sub-structure has to be imagined or deduced from what one can see of the
limited area and structure of the top.
And furthermore one has to imagine the city of Paris, the Seine, andthe
country of France seated on our Earth.
Our whole
body of modern Science (which only BEGAN about 4 to 500 years ago), and hashad
tremendous development in the past 150 years in observation and speculative hypotheses and theories. It is constantly on the boil as fresh
evidence emerges as relicts and fossils from the remains of past ages fixedin
stone or sedimentary strata (useful for dating). Hence, if you will review the history of the theories
evolved by Science to answer their concept of the causes that produced those as
evidence of the past there is to be traced a continuous change and a deepening
of the concept of time. WhenI
went to school in the 30s man was supposed (if one went to Science and was not
limited by the church dicta concerning the year of “creation”) to have evolved
from the Ape about 40,000 BC. Now
this has been pushed back to 2 to 4 million years. The history of past civilizations was then compressed. Now it is expanded, but no one has been
fully able to get out of the limits imposed earlier by very much. One great unexplained stumbling block
remains: EGYPT. Its artifacts show no gradualism in
development. Suddenly it is
there. Indian architecture and
engineering of the past is likewise suddenly THERE. The Mayan civilization shows relicts and great architecture
similar in some ways to both the EGYPTIAN and the INDIAN, and suddenly IT IS
THERE. I use this
to show how our Science speculates and then has to revise. One thing it need not speculate on are
the rules and laws of chemistry, physics, atomics, astro-physics, mathematics,
astronomy, biology (to the point it has so far discovered). But when we come to mind, psychology, virtue
and vice, the rules of cohabitation, etc…, and the cause of man’s desire,
determination, or avoidance of responsibility, we find everyone tripping, and
arbitrary theories are established only to be torn down and then rebuilt. Why? But let us
go a little further (I mean in the illustration of the top floor of the Eifel
Tower: Someone designed it, and
someone used it for a look-out point -- man and women can be seen walking about
and peering into the mist below.
The structure of steel implies ores, coal, factories and intelligent
engineering work according to a master-plan. Chemistry, physics, engineering, mathematics, vision,
thought, design, planning, imagination and an endless series of
inter-relationships are to be deduced from this single structure seated above
an impenetrable cloudy atmosphere (for the moment). [ Consider we might be trying -- in the context of
Theosophical research into CAUSES -- to describe to one another the complexity
of the 7 Principles of man and nature (S.D. II 596). Do they exist?
Are they functional? Who or
how were they established? What
function do they perform in nature and in our own being? Etc., etc…..] Supposing
we sweep away the cloud and reveal the size and measure of the tower, the
river, the city, the surrounding country with its many urban and suburban
facilities -- a visitor would be unable to at first understand the measure of
the vast cooperative of France that has produced this thing. And so on and on. And why is our Earth in a small corner
of the Galaxy (Milky Way) and why is the Milky way a remote and insignificant
galaxy of a few milliard stars and planets in what seems the borderland of a
desert in the starry Universe. Why all this? And wheredo
we gather the intelligence, to see, perceive, deduce, imagine and finally seek
for a beginning and an omnificent control? Evidence of “civilization” it may be, butt is there not
inherent in it the motives of millions of humans all engaged is separate (yet
ultimately harmonious) actions.
Are they moved by ONE FORCE?
Are they ruled by some “Centralizing Intelligence?” Are they puppets or are they freeto
choose how they act? It will
always be a puzzle until such time as we realize that we are individually FREE
to control our personal decisions,
but we will always be united in our independent dependence on one another. Paradox? Yes and no. As
much a paradox as the individual YOU/I asking and seeking for his/our
beginnings and potential endings -- which, in a Universe that is dimensionless in time space and motion
the sole stability of the INDIVIDUAL SPIRITUAL SELF which is ONE WITH THE SELF
and the SPIRIT of all other BEINGS.
He same essence unites us Whether we
use the ideas exposed in THE SECRET DOCTRINE or not, the same kind of query
develops when one reviews any ordinary appliance we casually use at home: a shaver, a toaster, the family car, an
icebox, our jobs, education, medical support, the providing of food, the
investing of funds for a security needed in ultimate retirement.== and so on
and on. Such a study develops
overall, into a study of the interactive cooperation that a BROTHERHOOD of all
beings requires. This is so that
we all may live together, perform various functions and, having developed the
perceptive CONSCIOUSNESS we now have, we reflexly demand for the keys to an
intelligent understanding of the ULTIMATE PURPOSE of our living. What is LIFE ? How did we get it? Where did we come from? What are we
doing now that has continuing value?
Will our efforts produce some value for us? Is there a future for our INTELLIGENCE (as we know that the
materials of our form are constantly changing, and in 7 years will have been
completely replaced. Medicaland
physical science says that the human body is replacing itself to the extentof
about 98% EACH YEAR.). So the
sense of EGOSHIP the sense of I, the demands of our desires and emotions, are
all non-physical but reside in something hitherto undetected (though surmised
as possible) . Theosophy of course
having investigated this millenniums ago gives the facts, reasons and the
process of self-investigation necessary for each of us to discover the meanings
to these questions in ourselves as well as all around us in Nature and in our
fellows. Well, that’s
enough for the moment. Bestwishes
to you Dallas ================================== =============================== -----Original Message----- Hi Dallas, sent this post to - - - - - - . Used your
old email address so it didn't get to you. Then had second
thoughts: reassessing my motives for sending posts to lists/people:
I'm asking myself: why should I send posts privately to you, etc., (as
that might be basically thought of as an imposition, in some way), when I could
settle for first posting in one of the 3 discussion forums I'm signedup
with (Theos-1, Universal Seekers, BN), and then just wait to see if anybodyhas
anything to say about what I have to say? Not only that, but since your posts tend to reflect (as I see it)
your points in a take-it-or-leave-it manner, only, basically, then the message
that your approach tends to promote, after a while, is one that would
seem to say, in effect, that everything you have decided to accept, in
the way of worthwhile Theosophic knowledge, can be found referred to in
some way somewhere in Theosophic literature: DTB Dear M: I agree that my answers have a certain
“take it or leave it” tone, but that is only a reflection of mystudy. I use the best ideas or methods
available, and then to those I add what I am able to understand. If you and I were discussing Geography
(physical, not political) then we might argue over a LOCATION or a
DESIGNATION. Along comes thespace
orbiter with its vary accurate cameras and depth sounders, and the cartographic
record it depicts of an area we might be discussing is far more accurate than
our (up to then) speculations. Are
we going to use it or reject it because it does not suit our fancy? Or shall we adopt the data as
verifiable FACT and TRUTH ? I use this
analogy to try to get across to you the intrinsic value of the theosophicalposition
-- it has one feature that is important: longevity and the thoroughness with
which it has investigated every aspect of science, learning, etc… Perhaps it is
this claim to universality that bothers you? Does it leave too little for you to work on? I say that the theosophical
propositions deserve to be verified and tested for accuracy. But, first we have to know what they
are. Without that study we are
left with the simile of “one hand clapping in the wilderness,” or, the concept
“ Was there a sound inthe forest
when a tree fell and nothing was near that could hear it ?” I find both quite useless as theyare
physically impossible and require perhaps a forum for consideration on some
other plane than the mere physical. In other words, the impression,
after a while, (which could, of course, be a very misleading impression, in
reality), is that you have decided to substantially forego your own decision-making, original thinking,
speculating, in favor of written Theosophic tenets, as if YOUR OWN ideas,
regardless of what they might be if you gave them some free reign, were somehow
irrelevant. DTB If you generate
that kind of response to my many postings, then you have well misunderstood
me. I rely on my own powers of
consideration, thought, and the ability to try to put “myself in the place of
another,” -- I THIN K FOR MYSELF. I admit I
rely on the many great ideas that
have come to us from past thinkers -- in the sense that we all STAND ON THE
SHOULDERS OF GIANTS. Does that
make us slavish? I think notas
the process of selection and examination precede any use of those
concepts. I happen to have found
Theosophy most encompassing and valuable.
I seek to point out to those facts. Not to limit
others to my way of speaking or writing, but rather that they too might profit from the contact. Of course I'm just talking about a general impression, mind
you, from my perspective.
Since I seem to be leaning toward the other extreme, in my "theosophic
approach" (I'm super-tentative, casual, and tend to question
EVERYTHING---as I see it), your highly contrasting approach seems all
the more obvious to me. Could it be that a Karmic effect between us is
promoting a middle-ground of some kind? DTB I would saya
“middle-ground” is inevitable in all dialogue. Would you not say the world (or field) of ideas we all
generate meet somewhere at or near the borderline of mutual contact? This may perhaps not be definable
physically, but conceptually ? If it is
possible for our “universe” extending out from us to the utter confines (if
any) of SPACE to pass through that same territory that is crisscrossed by the
energic and intelligent fields of others, it is inevitable that some
coincidence and relationship is either enhanced or diminished. This does not inevitably affect our
equanimity nor does it reduce the sense of “I-am-I.” =========
Subject:
The words "centralizing intelligence" caught my interest If self/Self-related/devised "Theosophic studies" (in 1. efforts tending to lead toward increasing reliance
on 2. efforts tending to lead toward increasing reliance
on Seems that most individual theosophic study-efforts Which would seem to suggest to me that, theoretically A/ reading and memorising theosophic literature B/ making use of the literature in ways that seem more C/ making use of the Theosophic literature and the Since theosophic studies would seem to promote SELF In other words, theosophic studies would seem to Recently, someone asked, " Is there a centralisisng
intelligence?" Seems to me as if progression toward higher Manasic So if forms of dependencies on forms of Uni-Centric Mauri ps sorry about the lack of traditional Theosophic CUT |