Theos-Talk Archives (February 2001 Message tt00223)

Tuesday, February 27, 2001

Dear Gene:

Thanks.

Those charts do not seem to be H.P.B.'s but were made up by some
of her students after her death. H.P.B. died in 1891 and that is
about 10 years later. (I have the THEOSOPHIST for 1899-1900 --
thanks for the reference. The accompanying notes in the article
were not very helpful to me, sorry.)

One of the things I noticed is that they act like a net put out
into the ocean to catch fish. These share the mind.
Particularly the catch those who desire to be able to speak of
things and use labels. But they are not so useful when one tries
to trace their origin and use.

I looked and compared them with tables in H.P.B.'s KEY TO
THEOSOPHY and some of those in THE SECRET DOCTRINE. The
difference is actually confusing as there is the substitution of
a new vocabulary of meaning for what H.P.B. so clearly depicts.
That is where things get to be confused (at least to me).

H.P.B.'s THEOSOPHY on the other hand always relates
classifications to the history of evolution and of becoming
what we now are -- mind-beings).

We have developed a number of faculties. We know we have a
reserve, a potential of more we can study and further develop.
But I would say this can only be done by thought and meditation
on their inter-connections and that includes the Supernal SOURCE.
In this way one can build the chain of relationship into one's
consciousness, so that it is available whenever needed to assist
others to understand. I think we are most useful when we are able
to do that.

Best wishes,

Dal

============================




-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Carpenter [mailto:Ecarpent@co.la.ca.us]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:21 AM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World Emotional growth

Dal,

I don't have the actual page numbers only the month and year. It
seems that
there are a number of charts concerning the planes in the Dec.
issue of THE
THEOSOPHIST of 1899 and there is a chart in the Jan. issue of
1900
concerning the same. Those are my two leads so far. I would be
happy to
xerox my charts and send them to those who don't have access to
them. I do
not have the issues of the above issues of THE THEOSOPHIST. I
got the
article from Wheaton Library, the Dec, 1889 issue, and it was
excellent. I
have looked for my copy but am unable to find it at this time.
Next I'll
look for charts in her collective writings but that will take
more time.

Gene


----- Original Message -----
From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 6:31 AM
Subject: RE: Theos-World Emotional growth


> Thank you Gene,
>
> Could you possibly help me by giving me the actual page for
your
> table (I seem to have mislaid mine) references so I can look
them
> up.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dallas
>
>
> ============================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eugene Carpenter [mailto:Ecarpent@co.la.ca.us]
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 9:52 AM
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Emotional growth
>
> Dear Dallas,
>
> The planes as given seem to me the standard seven planes used
in
> old and new
> theosophical literature including HPB's work and in The
> Theosophist. They
> are the major key to communication. For example please see:
The
> Theosophist for December, 1899, Chart XII, entitled, Parabrahm,
> for the
> magnificent Bird's Eye View. The seven cosmic planes are
> depicted. The
> seventh cosmic plane is the cosmic physical plane and it's
> subplanes are our
> systemic planes, our metaphysical planes:
>
> Logoic
> Monadic
> Atmic
> Buddhic
> Manasic
> Astral(Kamic)
> Etheric/physical(astral, in the old literature)
>
>
> The reference you have given on page 181 is indeed a bit
> perplexing until
> one can see that she is refering to the seven planes in their
> three major
> divisions that correspond to the three major aspects of the
ONE:
>
> Monadic planes
>
> Logoic
> Monadic
> Higher Atmic
>
> Intellectual Planes
>
> Lower Atmic
> Buddhic
> Higher Manasic
>
> Physical planes
>
> Lower Manasic
> Astral(kamic)
> Higher physical(etheric physical)
>
> The gross physical is the basis for appearance to us of the
> etheric
> physical(the body of habits or human behavior)(i.e. ethics)
which
> is the
> real, yet invisible to most, basis for the expression of all
the
> higher
> planes, or states of consciousness.
>
>
> So. Assuming that the chart from "The Theosophist" is correct,
> let's
> understand it. It will be the basis for a quantum leap into
> greater
> understanding.
>
> For those who don't have access to this chart, try "Treatise on
> Cosmic Fire"
> Page 1230 and while you are at it look at chart V as well, in
the
> same book.
> The charts are from the old theosophical periodicals and
probably
> clearly
> acceptable to HPB however I can't judge that as I don't know
> enough. Ignore
> Cosmic Fire, but, the Charts, at least, seem intensely
> informative and
> valuable.
>
>
> The Monadic planes, the Intellectual Planes, and the Physical
> Planes
> correspond well to the same division ideas in transpersonal
> psychology and
> are refered to as the Transcendental States of Consciousness,
The
> Transpersonal States of Consciousness, the Personal States of
> Consciousness.
>
> Please question everything I state as I am often wrong.
>
> Your friend and companion, indeed, truely,
>
> Eugene
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 5:24 PM
> Subject: RE: Theos-World Emotional growth
>
>
> > February 23, 2001
> >
> >
> > Dear Friend:
> >
> > In S.D. I 181-2 H.P.B. offers an explanation of the "planes"
in
> > which the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS can live, work, operate. They do
> not
> > agree with those you list below. In fact neither are they to
> be
> > found so identified in THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY where H.P.B. has
> > carefully provided us with explanations concerning the states
> of
> > consciousness.
> >
> > Consciousness for each individual MONAD is ONE. It is the
> > Perceiver. It draws on memories recorded in many planes (its
> > several vehicles).
> >
> > This tends to simplify our study and not to make it
confusing.
> > For instance, take your listing, how will you be able to
> > determine what is CONSCIOUS and what is the subjects of
> > INVESTIGATION ?
> >
> > Consciousness is unitary and stable and looks on events,
> > thoughts, feelings and words and deeds, does it not ?
> >
> > Do help; me to understand what you are trying to say.
> >
> > What is the value of "emotional growth?" How does it arise?
> Who
> > uses it, and for what ?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Dallas
> >
> > =============================
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eugene Carpenter [mailto:Ecarpent@co.la.ca.us]
> > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:27 AM
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Emotional growth
> >
> > Sorry, I just sent a blank reply.
> >
> > Let me try again.
> >
> > This(below) is such an important and lovely and enriching
> letter.
> > Thankyou
> > very very much. This is very encouraging and I'll have to
> > remember the
> > wonderful effects of emotional growth. Love to St. Francis.
> >
> >
> > It can be helpful to list the planes or states of
consciousness
> > most
> > pertinent to the thinker:
> >
> > 1. Logoic
> > 2. Monadic
> > 3. Atmic
> > 4. Buddhic
> > 5. Manasic
> > 6. Astral
> > 7. Physical
> >
> > When HPB wrote, the term "astral" referred to the etheric
plane
> > as it seems
> > so starlike to the clairvoyent. It is important also not to
> > confuse the
> > seven planes with the so-called seven principles and the
seven
> > rays. These
> > are all intimately related and correspond in some fashion but
> > need to be
> > kept clear for communications sake. So "astral" refers
> sometimes
> > to the
> > etheric and sometimes to kama. And of course the etheric
> > manifests the
> > emotional as it does for the four manifested planes from
Buddhi
> > downward.
> >
> > One other item of importance. Mulaprakriti is best
associated
> > with the
> > Monadic plane it seems to me. It manifests through the
Buddhic
> > plane. This
> > can be confusing and one can keep in mind that there always
is
> > the noumenon
> > and then the phenomenon. If one can actually contact
> > mulaprakriti(or it's
> > equivalent to us) that contact manifests in one's heart as
the
> > most
> > incredible Beauty. Small wonder that Parabrahmam is
hopelessly
> > in love and
> > Parabrahmam/Mulaprakriti can be thought of as two aspects but
> are
> > in fact
> > the causeless cause, at the Cosmic Monadic Plane, of the
cosmic
> > sacred
> > marriage that is in cosmic heaven(at the Cosmic Buddhic
Plane,
> > the first
> > manifested plane, the fourth plane from the top) A more
> familiar
> > way of
> > listing the planes for HPB-ites might be:
> >
> > Mahaparanirvana
> > Paranirvana
> > Nirvana(Cosmic Atmic)
> > Cosmic Buddhi
> > Cosmic Manas
> > Cosmic Kama
> > Cosmic Physical
> >
> > These are the Macrocosmic planes. The first list corresponds
> but
> > are the
> > seven subplanes of the Cosmic Physical
> >
> > Cosmic Physical
> >
> > Logoic
> > Monadic
> > Atmic
> > Buddhic
> > Manasic
> > Astral
> > Physical
> >
> >
> > This is the map-like bread and butter of metaphysical
> > communication form my
> > limited perspective and a very good area in which students
> might
> > reach a
> > consensus.
> >
> > Love,
> > Gene
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <sanctius@mail.com>
> > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>;
> > <valaistumattomat@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:41 PM
> > Subject: Theos-World Emotional growth
> >
> >
> > > Of astral bodybuilding and emotional growth:
> > >
> > > Once upon the time my threefold personality contained
astral,
> > or the
> > > feeling body, that had a little problem. It was like a
> > bottleneck
> > > between my etheric/physical and mental bodies. Yes it was a
> > fine, nice
> > > and quite functioning little astral body, but it was
missing
> > mass and
> > > depth. It was just feeling too little.
> > >
> > > So I began "a project" in order to correct that faculty of
> > mine, that
> > > was handicapping the bodies next to it, the physical and
the
> > mental
> > > bodies. It's neighboroughs couldn't communicate each other
> too
> > well
> > > because every flow of energy went through that puny astral
> > body. It
> > > was also a risk to increase the capacity of the mental or
> > etheric
> > > bodies, because that would put too much stress into the
> astral
> > body.
> > > That kind of stress could easily rip astral body apart and
> > cause
> > > severe mental disorders. In order to expand my overall
> > personality and
> > > to make it more functional vehicle in the earth service, I
> > decided to
> > > grow my feeling point of experience, that would in turn
> remove
> > the
> > > friction with it's neighboroughs and perhaps making them
work
> > as one,
> > > harmonized whole.
> > >
> > > How was it done? Simply. Crying, fearing, raging and
loving.
> > Much of
> > > this emotional work was done while my body was sleeping,
and
> > the rest
> > > of course when the body was awake. In the nighttime, very
> vivid
> > dreams
> > > began to appear. I ran, I hide, I feared, I screamed, I
> raged,
> > I
> > > crushed, I pounded, I devastated, I conquered, I died, I
> cried,
> > I
> > > talked, I studied, I travelled, I played, I laughed, I
loved,
> I
> > > helped, I comforted, I healed. As I went through negative
> > feelings, I
> > > could feel more positive feelings too.
> > >
> > > Every time I climbed into sunny hills, there was a vale of
> > sorrow
> > > waiting for me. And every time i went through the darkest
> hell
> > of
> > > human experience, the positive feedback was almost
immediate.
> I
> > pushed
> > > and extended my feeling body both upwards and downwards. I
> > rejoiced
> > > with angels, I battled with devils. I went thru the chaotic
> > black
> > > madness and thru the halls of silent perfect order. Calmed,
I
> > was
> > > still in the middle, now extended. Thru hell I conquered
> > heaven.
> > >
> > > As I went through these experiences, I was adding lot of
> astral
> > mass
> > > into my astral body. I tamed those wild emotions of love,
> hate,
> > fear
> > > and sorrow. I brought them under my will and direction. It
> > might be
> > > sayed, that those emotional elementals are now "mine" and I
> > have
> > > responsibility over them, as I have reponsibility over my
> self.
> > They
> > > are me as I am them.
> > >
> > > Where did that astral matter come? Surely not out of
nowhere?
> > From
> > > this very planet it came. Our Planetary Man is suffering of
> > those
> > > untamed emotions, and we have been called to cleanse and
> > stabilize His
> > > emotional body. The Earth is not yet a sacred planet, but
> > someday He
> > > shall be, as we shall be. Our responsibility is to carry as
> > much our
> > > planet's karma we can carry. This carry might be of
emotional
> > kind,
> > > and as we make it under our combined will, the Planetary
Man
> > shall be
> > > free and that sets us free too.
> > >
> > > Every day I cry, I dry the sea of sorrow. O:´)
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.kolumbus.fi/sanctius/myself.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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