Theos-Talk Archives (February 2001 Message tt00217)

Hi Gene,

Thanks for your thoughts. Just been too busy to get back to you. I'm more
interested in the thinking behind what you are saying than whether the
literature is sanctioned or not. However, when you or I state HPB says
'this' or 'that' then I would like us to look together to see whether she
does or not.

best & talk soon,

Peter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eugene Carpenter [mailto:Ecarpent@co.la.ca.us]
> Sent: 26 February 2001 00:06
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World The Seven Principles
>
>
> Dear Peter,
>
> To get started look on page 153 of the SD where the Human principles are
> shown in comparison to the Planetary Divsion. There the four manifesting
> planes are depicted. Look at the Planetary Division diagram.
> Planet one is
> on the buddhic plane, 2 is on the manasic plane, 3 is on the astral
> plane(emotional), 4 is on the physical plane, 5 is back on the
> astral plane,
> 6 is on the manasic plane and 7 is back on the buddhic plane. The three
> upper transcendental planes are not depicted. The diagram on page 157 are
> of the principles, of the various classifications and again fall(no pun
> intended) throughout the manifested planes. Again the upper three planes
> are not depicted.
>
> Again on page 172 we are dealing with the four lower planes, the planes of
> manifestation. Again the three abstract planes are not depicted. A and G
> are on the Buddhic plane, B and F are on the Manasic Plane, C and E are on
> the astral plane(emotional or kamic) and the dense globe, D, is on the
> physical plane, most pertinently, the etheric aspect of the
> physical plane.
>
> The proper order of the elements are given on page 458 of the same volume
> one of the SD: Fire, Flame, Akasa, Ether, Air, Water, Earth and
> correspond
> to these seven planes and are the substances of the seven subplanes of the
> cosmic physical plane. Fire, Flame, Akasa and Ether are the four cosmic
> ethers of the cosmic physical plane. They correspond to the four
> ethers of
> our physical plane.
>
> Recall that the classic and old Theosophic charts and literature refer to
> the upper planes or states of consciousenss as:
>
> Mahaparanirvana
> Paranirvana
> Nirvana
>
> The lower four depicted in the diagrams above mentioned are:
>
> Cosmic Buddhic
> Cosmic Manasic
> Cosmic Astral
> Cosmic Physical
>
> The upper three are abstract and the lower are concrete or
> manifested. The
> upper three are not manifested planes.
>
> The nought is seen on the Paranirvanic plane.
>
> The nought or circle with the point in the center is seen on the Nirvanic
> plane
>
> The nought or circle with the diameter is seen on the Cosmic Buddhic plane
>
> The circle with the triangle is seen on the Cosmic Manasic plane.
>
> The upper four planes or subplanes are arupa and the lower three are rupa.
>
>
> The complete gestalt would be
>
> Mahaparanirvana
> Paranirvana
> Nirvana
> Cosmic Buddhi
> Cosmic Manas
> Cosmic Astral
> Cosmic Physical
> Logoic, the sea of fire , FIRE
> Monadic, FLAME
> Atmic, AKASHA
> Buddhic, ETHER
> Manasic, AIR( cosmic gaseous)
> Astral, WATER( cosmic liquids)
> Physical, EARTH(cosmic solids)
>
> First ether
> Second ether
> Third ether(the vacuum ????)
> Fourth ether(the plasmas of physics)
> Gases of physics
> Liguids of physics
> Solids of physics
>
>
> I will go into my old books and pull out all the old charts that make
> reference to these standard seven planes, or states of consciousness, and
> write a little paper and explanation as it is these planes that form the
> entire background upon which one sees the principles, vehicles, chakras,
> materializing and etherealizing planets, etc, depicted. They are the map
> background for all theosophic conversations and will make all the various
> classifications much easier to understand(sub-stance). I don't
> have LUCIFER
> and I don't have THE THEOSOPHIST. Those that do might pull out the pages
> references for the various charts and diagrams and help out to establish
> this interesting basis for theosophic communication.
>
> And let's refer only to the HPB sanctioned literature, shall we?
>
> I'll get back to you.
>
> Sincerely,
> Eugene
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Merriott" <nous@btinternet.com>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 1:58 PM
> Subject: Theos-World The Seven Principles
>
>
> > Hello Eugene,
> >
> > I would be interested if you could offer some reference to
> where HPB uses
> > that particular 7-fold definition of:
> >
> > > Logoic
> > > Monadic
> > > Atmic
> > > Buddhic
> > > Manasic
> > > Astral(Kamic)
> > > Etheric/physical(astral, in the old literature)
> >
> > With regards the reference on SD I 181. This is the triple evolutionary
> > scheme during the ROUNDS that is being referred to, is it not. These
> three
> > being:
> >
> > 1. Monadic
> > 2. Intellectual
> > 3. Physical
> >
> > These are the three streams necessary for the formation of the three
> > *periodical-Upadhis* in which ATMA operates. So, aleady we have a
> question
> > mark as to the 7-fold division above which places the Monadic
> plane above
> > Atma.
> >
> > If you turn to SD I 157, you will see ATMA and the three
> > "periodical-Upadhis" outlined in the table of Principles under
> the heading
> > of Taraka Raja Yoga (shown on the left below). These are:
> >
> >
> > ATMA ATMA
> >
> > KARANOPADHI (Buddhi. Together with ATMA
> > is the MONAD in 'man')
> >
> > SUKSHMOPADHI (Manas: and Manas-Kama during
> > incarnation)
> >
> > STHULOPADHI (The astral body ie Linga Sarira
> > Prana
> > Sthula sarira ie physical body)
> >
> > In the above you will see Atma and its 3 Upadhis in the left
> hand column;
> > the seven human principles in the right hand column.
> >
> > "Though there are seven principles in man, there are but three distinct
> > Upadhis (bases) in each of which is ATMA may work independently of the
> rest.
> > These three Upadhis can be separated by an Adept without
> killing himself.
> > He cannot seperate the seven principles from each other without
> destroying
> > his constitution." (On SD I 158)
> >
> > As an additional thought, if you are interested in how these
> might relate
> to
> > the Dhyanis, one suggestion would be that:
> >
> > KARANOPADHI has a correspondence with the
> > Dhyani-Buddhas
> >
> > SUKSHMOPADHI ... with the Agnishwattas, the
> > Solar Pitris who awakened the
> > fire of Manas in 3rd root race
> > humanity.
> >
> > STHULOPADHI ... with the Barhishads, the Lunar
> > Pitris which provided the 'astral
> > model' in the 1st/2nd Root Races and
> > around which the physical body was
> > eventually formed.
> >
> >
> > best wishes to you, as always,
> > ...Peter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Eugene Carpenter [mailto:Ecarpent@co.la.ca.us]
> > > Sent: 25 February 2001 17:52
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Emotional growth
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Dallas,
> > >
> > > The planes as given seem to me the standard seven planes used in
> > > old and new
> > > theosophical literature including HPB's work and in The Theosophist.
> They
> > > are the major key to communication. For example please see: The
> > > Theosophist for December, 1899, Chart XII, entitled,
> Parabrahm, for the
> > > magnificent Bird's Eye View. The seven cosmic planes are
> depicted. The
> > > seventh cosmic plane is the cosmic physical plane and it's
> > > subplanes are our
> > > systemic planes, our metaphysical planes:
> > >
> > > Logoic
> > > Monadic
> > > Atmic
> > > Buddhic
> > > Manasic
> > > Astral(Kamic)
> > > Etheric/physical(astral, in the old literature)
> > >
> > >
> > > The reference you have given on page 181 is indeed a bit perplexing
> until
> > > one can see that she is refering to the seven planes in their three
> major
> > > divisions that correspond to the three major aspects of the ONE:
> > >
> > > Monadic planes
> > >
> > > Logoic
> > > Monadic
> > > Higher Atmic
> > >
> > > Intellectual Planes
> > >
> > > Lower Atmic
> > > Buddhic
> > > Higher Manasic
> > >
> > > Physical planes
> > >
> > > Lower Manasic
> > > Astral(kamic)
> > > Higher physical(etheric physical)
> > >
> > > The gross physical is the basis for appearance to us of
> the etheric
> > > physical(the body of habits or human behavior)(i.e. ethics)
> which is the
> > > real, yet invisible to most, basis for the expression of all
> the higher
> > > planes, or states of consciousness.
> > >
> > >
> > > So. Assuming that the chart from "The Theosophist" is correct, let's
> > > understand it. It will be the basis for a quantum leap into greater
> > > understanding.
> > >
> > > For those who don't have access to this chart, try "Treatise on
> > > Cosmic Fire"
> > > Page 1230 and while you are at it look at chart V as well, in the
> > > same book.
> > > The charts are from the old theosophical periodicals and probably
> clearly
> > > acceptable to HPB however I can't judge that as I don't know
> > > enough. Ignore
> > > Cosmic Fire, but, the Charts, at least, seem intensely informative and
> > > valuable.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Monadic planes, the Intellectual Planes, and the Physical Planes
> > > correspond well to the same division ideas in transpersonal psychology
> and
> > > are refered to as the Transcendental States of Consciousness, The
> > > Transpersonal States of Consciousness, the Personal States of
> > > Consciousness.
> > >
> > > Please question everything I state as I am often wrong.
> > >
> > > Your friend and companion, indeed, truely,
> > >
> > > Eugene
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>