Theos-Talk Archives (February 2001 Message tt00119)

February 16, 2001


Hi Martin:

Help me, please -- You sent a note to Peter (copy below)

I want to see if I made some error (see note below) If you can
help me, then please do

Thanks

Dal

===========



-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Leiderman [mailto:martinle@mindspring.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 5:57 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World Kundalini Siddhis and HPB

Dear Peter,
Thanks for your email and expanded quotes from the VOS.
I want to tell you I respect very much your opinion and have
saved lots of your
comments (emails) for future pondering, as I have saved millions
of Dallas'
email for the same reason. He is great source of quotes from HPB
and Judge.

But when Dallas states that because the Secret Doctrine only
mentions
'once" . and he concludes. . "therefore' . . . well, those
words, put in
that way don't not sound right to me . . . as it sounds perfect
to you,
because we both have different minds, and maybe unconscious
agendas.
============================

DTB Dear Martin, help me to identify this, so I can
look and see if I am making some error.
Thanks Dal

=========================

In my opinion when we feel strongly on a given point (like on the
practice of
Siddhis, or their attainment) we stop short in quoting and become
selective to
show the moral point of our view. And even though it is true we
should not play
with fire, we must learn about the Siddhis and with all the
virtues at hand, do
practice (the first practice being to restrain them in our
meditations), and
do not keep the knowledge at the theory level.
=======================

DTB I agree we ought to LEARN about the Siddhis (as
described this is a part of our activity as described in the 2nd
Object of the T.S.

The point I wished to make was that H.P.B. rarely said in so many
words: "DO THIS, DO THAT." She was not averse to giving a lot of
information about various occult and esoteric subjects, and in
her books and articles she indicates these, I think, rather
clearly. So that information we might take to mean is
information that explains some of the phenomena which occurs on
the physical plane, but which hitherto has not been explained in
detail.

It might be good for us to add what she says in these special
cases to our own lists. I would specially recommend what she
puts in the VOICE, and the T. GLOSSARY -- where she sometimes
give explanations not found elsewhere.
==========================


You do not learn to meditate by reading or not reading about it.
You will not
gain any spiritual power -Higher Siddhis - just by reading or not
reading about
it. You will not gain any enlightenment by memorizing quotes of
how to get
there., or on its nature. We must be theosophist in spiritual
action or we will
become 'quoters' or quote machines with the associated fallacy
that if I know
it by heart I am that as Ken Wilber points out in some of his
books. Or worst,
we use other's quotes instead of our own direct experience to
explain
something.
=======================

DTB I again agree that too much quoting is annoying.
However in defense of quoting, at least if we quote H.P.B. we are
quoting from what she brought to us from the Lodge of the
Masters, and not the speculations of a person like me, who have
read and collated and of course have by now framed my own
opinions -- as have other good students in the past: Meade,
Keightley, Judge, Besant, Jinarajadasa, de Puruker, Bailey, and a
whole host of students of H.P.B. who have more or less accurately
gained from their intimacy with the S.D. and their other
Writings.

All progress depends on what a student thinks about and meditates
on.
There is a grand scheme determinable in the S.D., etc...all our
efforts can be based on our understanding of the expressions and
comments given here and there in the ORIGINAL WRITINGS. As I see
it, that is the "Path" for all true students. Example, H.P.B. in
ISIS UNVEILED Vol. II p. 94-105 reveals a great deal of
important information concerning the nature and work of the GREAT
LODGE of WHITE ADEPTS down the centuries.

In the S.D. Vol. I p 272 and onward to p. 299, also, p. 14 -25,
she surveys and reviews the basis and principles that underlie
the S.D. and the Teachings of Theosophy.

In all cases it is LEFT TO THE STUDENT to study and figure out
how to apply those himself.
No progress comes from adopting another's views or teachings, no
matter how eminent they may be, until they are tested and proved
veritable by mediation and observation. H.P.B. has warned us all
against EXPERIMENTATION. We have a lot to learn before that
becomes safe and possible -- this is as I see it.
=========================


Then to justify what I wrote:
When there is more info coming from HPB we should provide it and
then a warning
if we think we can be judges of others ethical life. Otherwise we
are selective
and cultist, which lead to superstition, and that in my own
humble opinion is
cultist and period.
----------------------------

DTB Cultism is an attempt to draw others to ones'
self as an "AUTHORITY." H.P.B. has written enough on this to
dissuade anyone from trying that, or seeking to persuade others
to treat anyone as an "AUTHORITY." I personally recommend H.P.B.
and her writings, which the Masters have certified to be part of
their writing also (see certificate give to Dr. Hubbe-Schleiden
by the Masters which is reproduced in the PATH Magazine vol. 8,
p. 1-3.


======================================

A more interesting point is what do we understand by the quote
of the VOS:

"Gain Siddhis for thy future birth."

And my opinion is that the explanation is found in the purpose of
the Third
Object of the TS:

Quote from the Key:

"What we have to do is to seek to obtain knowledge of all the
laws of nature
and to diffuse it. To encourage the study of those laws least
understood by
modern people, the so-called Occult Sciences, based on the true
knowledge of
nature , instead of, as at present, on superstitious beliefs
based on blind
faith and authority." (Key III).

In order to do that we must have a philosophic touch for things
which is "a
disposition to investigate for the purpose of eliciting truth,
and reducing it
to practice." (A. Wilder , note on The Eleusinian and Bacchic
Mysteries, Page.
19)

By "blind faith and authority" can we include ourselves that
finds HPB the
TRUTH and AUTHORITY in ALL, and if she only mentions something
once, we'll pass
verdict of "warning, warning, warning" HPB only mentions it once
. . . Isn't
it "cultist or superstitious" going against HPB own warning in
the above
quote?

=======================

DTB I would say not. Each human is free to think.
The Law of Karma takes care of the results as Nature attempts
always to harmonize. Making or attempting to place ideas or
human in various categories is rather a dangerous practice, as
each is actually in their own self-made position and a little
different from anyone else.

==================================


Peter Merriott wrote:

> Martin wrote:
>
> > Also Dallas said about the Powers (Siddhis):
> > "Theosophy draws the attention of all students to SPIRITUAL
PURITY
> > and not to the attainment of "Powers, . . ."
> >
> > But the Voice of the Silence says:
> >
> > "Follow the wheel of life; follow the wheel of duty to race
and kin, to
> > friend and foe, and close thy mind to pleasures as to pain.
> > Exhaust the law of Karmic retribution. Gain Siddhis for thy
future birth.
> >
> > Lets not be superstitious nor fearful about it. Let be
prudent,
> > courageous and wise.
>
> The passage you quote from actually supports Dal's view. The
INSTRUCTIONS
> in Voice of the Silence are exactly about purifying our lower
nature,
> destroying the sense of separateness between ourselves and
others, centering
> our consciousness in the HIGHER NATURE, developing Compassion
and becoming a
> co-worker for the enlightenment of all Humanity. All of this
is our duty to
> race and kin, friend and foe. It is this which earns the
aspirant Siddhis
> for his/her future birth.
>
> I don't get any sense that Dallas is being cultish or
superstitious in his
> comments. I do get the sense he is being prudent. As the
Voice of the
> Silence says
>
> "THESE instructions are for those ignorant of the dangers of
the lower IDDHI
> (1)."
>
> Footnote =========
> (1). The Pali word Iddhi, is the synonym of the Sanskrit
Siddhis, or psychic
> faculties, the abnormal powers in man. There are two kinds of
Siddhis. One
> group which embraces the lower, coarse, psychic and mental
energies; the
> other is one which exacts the highest training of Spiritual
powers. Says
> Krishna in Shrimad Bhagavat: --
> "He who is engaged in the performance of yoga, who has subdued
his senses
> and who has concentrated his mind in me (Krishna), such yogis
all the
> Siddhis stand ready to serve."
> =========
>
> So, purify and control the lower nature, centre our
consciousness in the
> DIVINE SELF, and THEN the Siddhis will stand ready to serve.
>
> ...Peter