Theos-Talk Archives (January 2001 Message tt00147)

Saturday, January 27, 2001

Dallas offers a few notes:

----------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Carpenter [mailto:ecarpent@co.la.ca.us]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 5:14 PM
To: sd@blavatsky.net
Subject: [bn-sd] Re: "Substance-Principle": Number 2 - SD I 273

Peter,

At the logoic plane one has no entity.
==============

DTB Theosophy speaks of 3 Logoi

1. UNMANIFESTED LOGOS (The carried over PLAN and KARMA)

2. LOGOS -- creative or rather REGENERATIVE

3. MANIFESTING LOGOS (The active agents --7 -- which
along with their hosts of Monads begin to create KOSMOS out of
CHAOS)
=================================


At the monadic plane one has the circle or nought or chakra,
absolute
abstract motion and space representing Total Unconditioned
Consciousness and
Bare Subjectivity.
===============================

DTB Could the Monadic plane be defined?

Are there any references to that in the S.D. ? I was not able to
find any.

================================


At the Atmic plane one has the circle with the central point.

======================================

DTB I don't find such an "Atmic" plane defined in
the S.D. ?

======================================

It seems to me that it is the highest most synthetic state that
becomes
conscious of the "Will" but that "Will" has no intelligent field
of activity
through which to express itself until the second plane wherein
the pointless
circle first appears.
======================

DTB Will is always indicative of purpose hence there
is a 1. WILLER, 2. a PLAN to act on, and 3. the exercise of
the WILL is a creative or formative agent used to make forms
according to 4. Karma. Karma implies pre-existence and
choice -- or the 5. MIND as a free and creative agency in
Nature. It works in and through the MONADS (This is as I see
it.)

======================


It is at the highest synthetic [ WHY SYNTHETIC ? ] state
of consciousness that is the emptiness, consciousness of the will
aspect.(the point is the beginning manifestation of this highest
state, not the highest state itself which is empty in the fullest
sense possible. , [ THE S.D. DOES NOT INDICATE THAT "EMPTINESS"
WITHOUT THE HIGHEST CONSCIOUSNESS EXISTS. IT WOULD BE ILLOGICAL
TO HAVE SUCH A TOTAL VOID. -- DTB ]

Supreme as to cause, not supreme as to effect. I dare say that
the point at the third level is the effect of this highest state
on the very center of the disk of abstract
motion and space. The beauty of this effect resonates throughout
the
transpersonal planes of Atma-buddhi-higher manas.(BE FREE, BE
FREE, BE FREE)

=================================

DTB BE FREE OF WHAT ? does not sound logical to me.
If something is there then there is no void and no emptiness
=================================

Then that consciousness of logoic will can manifest as the
central point
through that intelligently active field.

========================

DTB SOUNDS LIKE A PERSONAL GOD ? again not logical.

================================


If I meditate, struggling to become conscious of the
transcendental "will",
sacrificing everything in order to up the amps on the
consciousness level,
and I receive that "will", then, I must represent to myself the
proper field
of intelligent activity in which to use to carry out that will,
to translate
that will into intelligent action.( In other words I must have a
perfected
personality ready to carry out that will) (my beloved shakti).
If that
intelligent activity is the product of training and experience
then that
consciousness of the "will" can be placed into action without any
trouble,
perfectly. If that field of intelligent activity is untrained,
inexperienced and immature then matter of the field will resist
carrying out
the will and it will take some time and space and practice and
trial and
error before that will can be delivered perfectly through that
field. I'm
going to have to patiently and lovingly train and teach that
personality to
someday carry out the will:

========================

DTB It is always the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS working
through the LOWER MANAS that does all the purificatory work, is
it not? The highest sees through the eyes of the lowest.

=======================

1. Consciousness of the Will

[ DTB OF WHAT ? ]

2. Consciousness of the field of intelligent activity

[ DTB AS SEPARATE FROM EMPTINESS OR THE VOID ? ]


3. Consciousness of the will manifesting perfectly through that
creative
field

[ DTB Does WILL here mean the Laws of Nature as a total
? ]
[ What Is the WILL? Is it Law, Karma? What is its objective ?
DTB ]


4. Consciousness of the beauty of that will manifesting perfectly
through
that field of intelligent activity

[ DTB WHY "BEAUTY ?" THIS IS A FEELING AND NOT COMPREHENSION.
TO UNDERSTAND IS VITAL. WHO, OR WHAT UNDERSTANDS? ]


5. Consciousness of the causal relationships between the will
and the
intelligent activity of the field of intelligent activity (the
solution to
the Des Cartesian split) (the Higher Self)

[ DTB WHAT IS THE HIGHER SELF ? ]


6. Consciousness of any emotional resistance to carrying out the
will
through the field of intelligent activity

[ DTB WHAT SHOULD I -- PRESUMABLY THE LOWER "I'
RESISTS --- BUT, WHY? Why do emotions resist mind and logic?
DTB ]


7. Consciousness of any bad habits that interfere with putting
that will
into action.

[ DTB AWARENESS OF BAD HABITS MEANS IN THE PAST I HAVE
TRAINED MY LOWER VESTURES/TOOL BADLY. Now they return as Karmic
impediments (skandhas I have distorted. The present task I have
is to straighten out the mess and set them (and my Lower Self)
ion the right direction. ]


I'm thinking that the point is everything, all possible thought,
at a single
point, ready to manifest, like the germ in the egg. It is the
intense being
within the field of perfected intelligent activity. Atma

Above that at the monadic level is the perfected intelligent
activity,
resting, at peace, in pralaya, having not yet received the
conscious will.

Above that at the Logoic level there is pure and empty
consciousness
resonating to the will of the Solar Logos, empty of all except
that
resonance with the will.

1. Total consciousness and bare subjectivity resonating to the
will

2. Total consciousness and bare subjectivity represented as
absolute
abstract motion and space

3. Total consciousness and bare subjectivity beginning to
manifest through
that abstract motion and space as the central zero point within
that
motion/space.


1.

2.( )

3.( . )


I know I might not be clear but I'm practicing and really trying.
As my
personality gets better and better it will become clearer and
clearer. Then
my heart felt will, will be clearly expressed.

Imagine. The Will of the Solar or Planetary Logos trying to work
through
the intelligent activity of humanity! Phew! Hard work. It'll
have to
soften us up with lots of love and understanding first! Only
then will we
be able to come face to face with Reality.


1. executive aspect
2. the constitution
3. legislative aspect
4. the judiciary
5. lawyers
6. emotions
7. traditions and cultural habits that need changing


In the U.S. the president senses the will or the needed direction
the
country needs to take(oh please Lord, oh pretty please)

That will must manifest through the legislature as created law.

That law must be constitutional

Then that law is applied in order to change society for the
better(oh pretty
please)

Truth must be sensed.

Then be translated into intelligent action

And carried throughout the system.



Gene

=================

DTB EXCUSE ME BUT THE INTERCONNECTING LOGIC SEEMS
DIFFICULT TO FIND.
THIS IS ALL LABELING and does not show the relation of the
various parts as I look for it. Unless the meanings are clearly
stated it seems to me like making comparisons with divergent
meanings and hence nothing is achieved. My view Dal ]

Dallas

==============================




----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Merriott" <nous@btinternet.com>
To: <sd@blavatsky.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 2:05 PM
Subject: [bn-sd] Re: "Substance-Principle": Number 2 - SD I 273


> Gene,
>
> Thanks for a thought provoking reply. Yes, it is a very rich
sentence
that
> we find in our current study passage:
>
> "The fundamental Law in that system, the central point from
which all
> emerged, around and toward which all gravitates, and upon which
is hung
the
> philosophy of the rest, is the One homogeneous divine SUBSTANCE
PRINCIPLE,
> the one radical cause."
>
> Sometimes, we find it expressed as "the germ within the egg"
and this
gives
> us an image from nature of how the germ in the egg unfolds and
expands
from
> within itself and manifests its own substance-form, substance
energy. It
> contains "all and everything" that it is destined to be in its
own
> particular cycle... and perhaps in potential for all those
cycles outside
of
> its own "ring pass not" that are yet to come. And all the
'unfolding' is
so
> obviously that of an unfolding 'plan'... thus ideation, energy
and form
> operate together with a real purposefulness - an impersonal
WILL from
which
> all three seem to stem.
>
> WILL, IDEATION, ENERGY and FORM.
>
> We also speak of "the germ of an idea"... Look around at human
endeavour,
at
> all the things that can happen and unfold from just one germ
(or gem) of
an
> idea!
>
> So I wonder whether the Point "within Space" (point within the
circle, the
> germ in the universal egg) represents emptiness, as such. In
one sense it
> is as if the 'ultimate point' (LOGOS, MONAD) of everything
contains within
> it EVERY 'THING' that is capable of BECOMING any thing in all
its
fullness.
>
> We might say 'the point' is 'absolute fullness', whilst the
circumference
of
> the circle represents 'absolute emptiness'... the latter being
the 'outer
> space' into which 'inner space' unfolds itself.
>
> "In the sense and perceptions of finite "Beings," THAT is
Non-"being," in
> the sense that it is the one BE-NESS; for, in this ALL lies
concealed its
> coeternal and coeval emanation or inherent radiation, which,
upon becoming
> periodically Brahma (the male-female Potency) becomes or
expands itself
into
> the manifested Universe." (SD I 7)
>
> And yet we are made to understand that the centre and
circumference are
two
> aspects of the ONE, which is SPACE.
>
> "Space is neither a "limitless void," nor a "conditioned
fullness," but
both:
> being, on the plane of absolute abstraction, the
ever-incognisable Deity,
> which is void only to finite minds,* and on that of mayavic
perception,
the
> Plenum, the absolute Container of all that is, whether
manifested or
> unmanifested: it is, therefore, that ABSOLUTE ALL." (SD I 8)
>
> Just a few thoughts prompted by yours.
>
> ...Peter
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eugene Carpenter [mailto:ecarpent@co.la.ca.us]
> > Sent: 25 January 2001 18:21
> > To: sd@blavatsky.net
> > Subject: [bn-sd] Re: "Substance-Principle": Number 2 - SD I
273
> >
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > First. The word "point" is a clue and the words "within
space" is a
clue.
> > It seems she is referring to:
> >
> >
> > ( . ), the cosmic or microcosmic atma. As I have
speculated
> > before that
> > the point within this abstract space is the representation of
the
> > pure empty
> > state of consciousness of the cosmic logoic or microcosmic
logoic plane.
> > Let's keep in mind the Absolute Nothingness of the Buddhists
and hope to
> > realize that the best One can do is to become fully
consciousness of
this
> > FACT. Full consciousness, empty of all else, then, itself,
represents
the
> > Will of any system that is basically and fundamentally
no-thing
> > at all. It
> > is argued by Chang and others that it is this sublime absence
that is
the
> > presence in our lives and beckons us forth into higher states
of
> > consciousness until we reach some natural limit. "I assert
the
> > FACT."(zero
> > and it's symbolic representation, I, the symbol, assert the
fact)
Please
> > see below.(your questions)
>
>
> ---
>
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