Theos-Talk Archives (January 2001 Message tt00030)

For me this was a really clear and most appreciated statement of how things
are. I shall keep and treasure it until such time as I am able to see the
things of theosophy so clearly.

love

John Lester

-----Original Message-----
From: dalval14@earthlink.net [mailto:dalval14@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 11:29
To: theos-talk@egroups.com
Subject: RE: Theos-World INTUITION What is it?


Jan 5th 2001


Dear Gene:

This excellent food for thought. I'll try and make this brief.

-------------------


The "planes" are conditions of matter. They are of course linked
one to the other, as that linkage makes for the wholeness of the
Universe and encompasses the many levels of awareness and
perception (sensation) of a multitude of MONADS, each of which is
on its own particular level of progress towards the common goal
of "Perfection."

The CONSCIOUSNESS that passes through, uses or visits those
planes and principles is SINGULAR. Thus the CONSCIOUSNESS or
awareness of SINGULARITY is the uniting thread (or link) which
enables us to perceive and use the qualities that are inherent in
each of those levels, or vehicles on the ONE SPIRITUAL PRINCIPLE
OF ALL -- ATMA.

Of course, such memories (usually fragments and quite
uncontrolled) seem to us to be separate consciousness
experiences -- yet, the ONE THREAD is important because that is
essentially our REAL SELF. ( Sutratma -- is the old Sanskrit
designation -- as can be checked in the KEY .)

Example: YOU (as CONSCIOUSNESS) have DREAMS, VISIONS, or go
UNCONSCIOUS for a number of hours of "deep sleep" or drug induced
unconsciousness, as when operated on, or stunned, or in a coma.

The CONSCIOUSNESS of each person does not CHANGE, even when the
localities or planes are visited. The environment there can be
seen to change -- Example: Desires, passions, yearnings,
emotions are quite different as an environment from our WAKING
experiences or our DREAM experiences.

In TRANSACTIONS of the BLAVATSKY LODGE (COLLECTED WORKS --
Blavatsky Vol. 10, pp. 252 -- 263 ) you will find that there is
an important set of definitions given in regard to the relation
of the embodied "brain-mind" which WE use when WE are awake on
this material, physical plane of ours. The contrast with the
SPIRITUAL planes where the ATMA and the BUDDHI reside (as the
MONAD) is quite marked.

The problem is that our BRAIN-MIND (when it is "unconscious" does
not RECORD ALL the experiences of the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS IN US --
which stems from the Monad (ATMA-BUDDHI) -- so we are largely
unaware of how the inner REAL MAN (the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS) lives
and acts on other planes, in ourselves, to which our LOWER MANAS
has not yet gained access, because it is still too gross.

I admit this is somewhat difficult to grasp as we are embedded is
our LOWER MANAS now. That what seems to us here and now to be
the appearance of different levels (planes) whereon the ONE
CONSCIOUSNESS which is OURSELVES, also has the power to operate.

As I think I said earlier, our brain-mind or LOWER MANAS is only
a REFLECTION of the Higher Manas (or Buddhi-Manas) and it has to
win its independence and competence through the arduous process
of self-purification. This is why the emphasis on morality and
ethics is made. It really is not so difficult if we look at it
as the simple factor of UNIVERSAL LAW.

The LAWS exist. We can no more change them than we can alter
fire into water (normally), or Earth into a huge bubble of gas.
Everything is interrelated and hence the concept of mutual
service and protection of the weak and the sick is deeply
embedded in us as well as the idea of being a separate and free
entity. A balance through understanding has to be established
and the MIND (the Lower Mind -- Kama-Manas -- the selfish self
that we usually are) has to agree to that as a working basis. It
then establishes its own laws that are in harmony (love) with
those of the UNIVERSE of which it is an inalienable part.

But innate to us, in our capacity to think and visualize the
Universe as well as ourselves, we sense our FREEDOM and
INDEPENDENCE. This is one of the factors. The other is that we
could not survive on any of the planes ("principles of the
Universe and man") unless NATURE (or the UNIVERSE) was friendly
cooperative, and interactive with our CONSCIOUSNESS as an
independent MIND. We have to reciprocate. Or else we are
abusing the charitable and generous aspects of LIVING. If we dwe
ll in thought on the implications of this, we will soon find out
that any contravention of LAW brings on a corrective event --
some kind of restriction such as we imposed on others in our
search for selfish conditions of some kind.

Not being isolated, and being IMMORTALS we are at last forced to
perceive the cooperative and service oriented (generous) nature
of our environment. Obeying the LAW (Karma) is the only avenue
we have to VOLUNTARILY adopt. This voluntary effort (to learn
and to apply) is the condition in which all persons (like you and
I) are.

I am not sure if I have said this well, but hopefully it is
clear.

Best wishes to you as always

Dal.


D T B


==========================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Carpenter [mailto:Ecarpent@co.la.ca.us]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 9:32 AM
To: theos-talk@egroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World INTUITION What is it?


Dear Dallas,

I'm referring to the seven systemic planes as listed in the
standard
theosophic literature. I understand plane to mean a state of
consciousness.
The seven planes are part of the infinite spectrum the higher the
vibration
the more spiritualward and the lower the vibration the more
materialward.

The entirely is the Light, the third aspect and appears as many
yet, in
reality, is one.

==============================

DAL'S COMMENTS


1. Logoic	NOT A PLANE BUT A MODERATING AGENT
2. Monadic	NOT A PLANE BY A VIVIFYING AGENT
3. Atmic	NOT A PLANE BUT A "RAY" OF UNIVERSAL SPIRIT
4. Buddhic	NOT A PLANE BUT THE "AKASA" RECORD OF ETERNITY
5. Manasic(state of scientific wisdom) NOT A PLANE BUT THE
ACTIVE DOER
6. Emotional(astral plane in the new use) NOT A PLANE BUT
CHAOTIC DESIRE
7. Physical(the higher four subplanes of which are your and HPB,s
"astral"
NOT A PLANE BUT A CONDITION OF MATTER WHERE "SEPARATENESS"
HAS TO BE RESOLVED INTO COOPERATION.

===========================================

The above are the seven metaphysical states of consciousness
within the
Cosmic Physical Plane, itself one of seven, with the third from
the top
being the plane of Brahma(neutral)

-----------------------------------


DTB	I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS AT ALL. HOW CAN THE METAPHYSICAL
BE "WITHIN THE COSMIC PHYSICAL PLANE ?"

===============================


The corresponding physical states are

1. first ether
2. second ether
3. third ether
4. fourth ether(plasma)
5. gaseous
6. liquid
7. solid

====================================

DTB	THESE DO NOT SEEM TO BE HPB'S DEFINITIONS NOR IS THERE ANY
EXPLANATION GIVEN OF THEIR REASON FOR EXISTENCE.

BUT THESE ARE NAMES AND TELL US NOTHING OF WHAT THEIR RESPECTIVE
FUNCTIONS ARE. WHAT DO THEY DO WHAT RESULTS FROM A KNOWLEDGE OF
THOSE? These are not HPB's DEFINITIONS.

=============================================

All is a continuum of one substance more material lower on the
totem pole
and more spiritual higher on the totem pole, all being relative
to the
observer.

DTB	CAN AN EXAMPLE OF THIS BE GIVEN ?

=========================================

To me this one substance is UNDERSTANDING or LIGHT. It is
integrated from
the many back into the one by COMPASSION and COOPERATION amongst
disciples.
It is the mother aspect, intelligent activity, and that aspect of
the One
that raises matter from the lower and grosser up into the more
spiritual
light of Atma-Buddhi-Manas when matter becomes subservient to the
second
aspect of COMPASSION and later, WILL.


DTB	sorry but not clear at all.

CUT

Best wishes,

Dal