Theos-Talk Archives (November 2000 Message tt00188)

If Total Unconditioned Consciousness and Bare Subjectivity


is all there is,

then what is substance?


Could it be that substance is the under-standing of the above?


Wouldn't under-standing the above take time and space?


Are we not Total Consciousness and Bare Subjectivity

gradually understanding who we are?


Gene



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sherab Dorje" <sherab@wenet.net>
To: <theos-talk@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 9:46 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: Point of view- THIS is a Classic example


> There is a one to one correspondence with your quote below,
> > that "The Universe is Embodied Consciousness" -- 
> > on every possible plane.
> and the quote that I posted earlier in this discussion that is 
> attributed to Lord Maitreya,
> "Nothing exists apart from the Mind,
> Awareness eventually comes to realize this."
> 
> One could also say in equal truth, Consciousness is the Universe or 
> that the Universe is Conscious. Either way, there is no getting 
> around the truth that all is in Mind. Awareness is That, embodied or 
> not. It is the non-recognition of that intrinsic awareness that 
> brings about the embodiment.
> 
> As to whether this is helpful to readers or not would be hard to 
> determine. If there is some juice in a thread then will get legs and 
> have some participation. If one is drawn to this forum then they are 
> drawn to the Mysteries, that much we have in common. To invoke the 
> Mysteries is to evoke the metaphysical dyanmic between the student 
> and the teacher, the disciple and the guru, the chela and the chohan, 
> the novice and the lama, in other words to teach and to learn.
> 
> Thank you for your comments. There are many discussions taking place 
> here but not all that I can participate in.
> 
> Sherab
> 
> --- In theos-talk@egroups.com, Compiler <compiler@w...> wrote:
> > Sherab,
> > 
> > This may or may not be helpful to some readers:
> > 
> > As I read all of the stimulating scientific discussions here, and 
> not
> > personally having a scientific or scholarly bent, just being a 
> student who
> > is a theosophic generalist, so to say, in trying to understand it 
> all, I
> > keep clearly in the front of my mind at all times the fundamental
> > Theosophic statement, assuming that it is true, until proven 
> otherwise,
> > that "The Universe is Embodied Consciousness" -- on every possible 
> plane.
> > 
> > Compiler
> > -------
> > 
> > Sherab Dorje wrote:
> > 
> > > Discussion indeed! Thank you for your stimulating questions and
> > > thoughts.
> > >
> > > First, some thoughts about Sham's questions after sleeping on 
> them.
> > > Good questions require good answers and having just read LMH's
> > > posting on this subject that needs sometime to digest.
> > >
> > > Given that there is no way to separate the Mind from the 
> awareness of
> > > phenomena what can we understand about these differing points of
> > > view. Western science regards consciousness as a phenomena giving 
> it
> > > substantial form, where as, spiritually regarded, mind appears as 
> an
> > > infinitely empty container in which all phenomena manifest and has
> > > certain inherent qualities.
> > >
> > > There appears to be no problem with regarding inter-molecular 
> space
> > > as a kind of primordial substance. What appears to awareness, be 
> that
> > > iron or emptyness is really a matter of the state of awareness, or
> > > state of mind. Substance appears as a state of consciousness. In 
> that
> > > as consciousness unfolds or the state of mind changes, as in 
> death,
> > > then what follows is a change in the appearance of phenomena or
> > > substance. As human beings, we are subjects within certain realms
> > > where substances conform to their karmic causes. I believe that 
> this
> > > is what HPB refers to as the limits beyond which we can go not. If
> > > there is any way to characterize HPB's work, it is that she is
> > > showing us the naked reality of our consciousness and asking us to
> > > examine That.
> > >
> > > This does not preclude or exclude the consciousness of beings that
> > > exist at other energetic frequencies or interpenetrating planes of
> > > being and that are subject to their corresponding realms that are
> > > just as substantial as iron is in our realm though those 
> substances
> > > may appear to us as space in our realm. So nothing exists apart 
> from
> > > the mind, regardless of whatever state the mind is in.
> > >
> > > Another approach we may take to analyze this is to regard 
> phenomena
> > > as effect produced by a cause. Force, must be the sensible
> > > appearance of this process, the movement of energetic flux, of
> > > manifestation or pralaya due to cause. Phenomena appears due to 
> cause
> > > and when the cause is removed the phenomena disappears without a
> > > trace. This also applies to the mind and its state. Different 
> states
> > > of Mind come about because of causes so it follows that in other
> > > states of Mind different phenomena and substance will arise in
> > > awareness.
> > >
> > > It is not my intent to flippantly reduce the wealth of knowledge
> > > revealed by science to mere mental clutter, that would be
> > > disrespectful nor is it my intent to reduce spiritual views of 
> Mind
> > > to an unregardable eternalist view. Science is an ego, an "I" that
> > > wants to always box things in or find smaller and smaller
> > > compartments of usefully quantifiable corresponding information. 
> It
> > > does this by generating them with concepts, mental constructs. 
> When
> > > one box of concept is complete another larger box is under
> > > development somewhere else. The question, is this, are we just
> > > creating more causes for a larger universe or universes? And if 
> so,
> > > then we must examine the motivation for producing these causes. 
> That
> > > line of questioning ultimately leads back to the purpose of being
> > > human. This, I regard, as the highest Theosophical duty.
> > >
> > > It is a real pleasure to take part in such a stimulating
> > > converstation. More on this thread later.
> > >
> > > Sherab
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>