Theos-Talk Archives (October 2000 Message tt00231)

--- In theos-talk@egroups.com, Bart Lidofsky <bartl@s...> wrote:
> http://biology.indstate.edu/users/nizrael/jesusrefutation.html

I've encountered this letter before by the learned rabbi. He writes:

If Jesus was not an historical person, where did the whole New 
Testament story come from in the first place? The Hebrew name 
for Christians has always been Notzrim. This name is derived 
from the Hebrew word neitzer, which means a shoot or 
sprout--an obvious Messianic symbol. There were already 
people called Notzrim at the time of Rabbi Yehoshua ben 
Perachyah (c. 100 B.C.E.). Although modern Christians claim 
that Christianity only started in the first century C.E., it is clear
that 
the first century Christians in Israel considered themselves to be 
a continuation of the Notzri movement which had been in 
existence for about 150 years. One of the most notorious Notzrim 
was Yeishu ben Pandeira, also known as Yeishu ha-Notzri. 
Talmudic scholars have always maintained that the story of 
Jesus began with Yeishu. The Hebrew name for Jesus has 
always been Yeishu and the Hebrew for "Jesus the Nazarene" 
has always been "Yeishu ha-Notzri." (The name Yeishu is a 
shortened form of the name Yeishua, not Yehoshua.) It is 
important to note that Yeishu ha-Notzri is not an historical Jesus 
since modern Christianity denies any connection between Jesus 
and Yeishu and moreover, parts of the Jesus myth are based on 
other historical people besides Yeishu. 

Bart I was wondering if you subscribe to the argument of the 
source you cited that Jesus derived from Yeishu ben Pandeira. If 
so, then as with Mead you agree Jesus could have been Yeishu 
ben Pandeira. 

The learned Rabbi's argument that "It is important to note that 
Yeishu ha-Notzri is not an historical Jesus since modern 
Christianity denies any connection between Jesus and Yeishu 
and moreover, parts of the Jesus myth are based on other 
historical people besides Yeishu." 

Why would he say that? Who cares ultimately what "modern 
Christianity" says? either he was or not. If Jesus derived from 
ben Pandeira he was ergo historical. 

- Art