Theos-Talk Archives (June 2000 Message tt00086)

In a message dated 06/06/00 3:28:12 AM, tlorentz@telusplanet.net writes:
>
>Hi Wayne,
>
>>Is Maitreya a teacher?  
>
>Yes, in the truest sense of the word I think.  There has been a very strong
>urge against accumulating any followers.  In fact, Maitreya has stated
>openly that if you try to "follow" Him (as in "give blind allegence") you
>would loose Him.  At any rate, He states a major part of His mission as
>coming to teach the Art of Self Realization, and that it is the personal
>experience of the "Self" that matters very much.  If you get that, then
>all other problems in the woprld have the potential to be solved.  All else
>comes follows from knowing and experiencing that we are not separate. 
>In fact, any "sin" that one could imagine in the human being steps from the
>one major "sin of separation".  From that one belief - that we are separate
>from each other and nature - all other distortions or sins arise in the
>human personality. 

What's new in this teaching that already has not been thoroughly covered in 
the teachings of HPB and the Masters?  If Maitreya is the "new messenger" for 
this cycle, then what is it that sets him apart from the older teachers of 
theosophy's "Heart Doctrine," or the many other "gurus" around today who are 
saying and teaching the same things?  On what basis do you specifically 
accept him as the 
"One" and only "descended Master" for this new age, and try so hard to 
persuade others to join you in such "blind" belief? ... As is obvious from 
the reaction of the 6,000, pre conditioned Christian Nairobi's you tout as 
"witnesses" (which word also is, BTW, a typical Christian proselytizer's 
jargon) never mind the possibility that such "witnessing" can be totally 
delusional.
>
>>Does it signify a change in how God 
>>relates to humanity?  As I understand it, 
>>Jesus came to teach the reality of the 
>>Jewish religion to the Jews, and Christianity 
>>was born.  The reality was taught to Jew and 
>>Gentile alike.  God is there for anyone, just 
>>as gravity is there for anyone.  God has to be 
>>chosen, gravity does not.  The reality of God 
>>must exist for Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Jew, ... etc.
>
>Maitreya's message is much the same.  I would say that Jesus came for
>humanity, although the Christians have made Him "their boy", so to speak.
>He does not belong to the Christians exclusively, in the same way that
>the Buddha does not belong to the Buddhists exclusively, nor Krishna to the
>Hindus.

That's true... But, since when was the Christian theology and belief system 
(which incidentally, denies karma and reincarnation -- which the Jews don't) 
the "reality" of the Jewish religion?  I thought that both Buddha and Jesus 
(a/k/a the Rebbe, Joshua) spoke out solely to reform their respective 
religions by taking away the power of their self serving priestcrafty 
rulers... Joshua, to end the exploitation power of the Rabbi's materialism 
and greed, and Guatama, to end the Hindu caste system for similar reasons.  
Neither of them changed any of the fundamental theosophical roots of their res
pective religions, which were almost identical, nor gave up believing in 
their impersonal divine roots, or ineffable "God" (for which the Christian 
personal God, "Jehovah" is a poor substitute).  Although they both brought 
their disciples a simplified interpretation of their respective religion's 
esoteric spiritual beliefs and ideas of brotherhood, ethics and morality.  It 
was only the Priests of the Christian religion, which started several hundred 
years after the supposed death of Jesus (if he ever actually existed), that 
created the contrived theology with its Heaven and Hell and false 
creationism, that they believe in today -- which is what Chogyam Trungpa, 
founder of the Buddhist Naropa Institute, called, a typical example of 
"Spiritual Materialism."  

So, would you kindly explain what "God" you are talking about?  Also, tell us 
if you are parroting the "new dispensation" of Maitreya, or if all that 
prophesying is solely your own opinions and beliefs?  What has Maitreya got 
to say about "brotherhood" and "compassion" that the original founders of all 
these religions he is supposedly reorganizing, hasn't already said?  Tell us 
how is he going to bring them all together in one group action?  What is that 
action?

>At every Age, a new teacher comes to deliver a new dispensation to
>humanity, a next step or deeper insight in the nature of divinity, etc.
>Past teachers include Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Hermes, Vyasa, etc, etc.
>Each teacher brings a new insight or new perspective on reality, but they
>are all a part of the one Spiritual Hierarchy that guides our planet.
>Blavatsky and Bailey would certainly be initiates in that Hierarchy and
>had specifics parts in the Plan.

Could it be possible, since HPB came in the last 200 year cycle of the old 
Jesus AND Buddha initiated Piscine age (around 2000 years or 1/12th of the 
period of Earths precession on its axis) -- that she might be the "New 
Teacher" of the Now forthcoming Age of Aquarius?  And that all who come after 
her are simply minor figures on the world stage and bring nothing 
esoterically new that wasn't already thoroughly exposed exoterically ("for 
the intuitive student" to sort out) in the SD, along with all her other 
writings and those of her direct students and associates?  

I, for one, have never found anything "new" in most later teachings of those 
so called "neo-theosophists" and "New Age" gurus who came after HPB (even 
when true, since much of these teachings, I found, were twisted and distorted 
out of all semblance of consistent occult reality) that I didn't already know 
from intuitive and meditative study of the SD, as well as of most of the 
other occult literature HPB referenced -- and more.  So, It would be 
interesting to know...  What actually is that "new dispensation" of Maitreya? 
 What can it add to the three fundamental principles, and the three objects 
of the theosophical movement?  What is the "new insight and perspective on 
reality" this teacher supposedly brings?  What is the nature of its part in 
the "plan"?  What is that "plan"?  And, how does it differ from what has 
already been taught by the message for the 20th century given out by HPB, and 
relayed by the thousands of theosophists (among them, Christians, Jews, 
Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists) who have understood and promulgated it to 
their own co-religionists, and others, since then?  I'm sure we all would 
also be interested in the practical means Maitreya has for solving the 
problems of the world and reversing the damage done to the Earth, its 
environments and its ecology.
>
>Maitreya represents the next step in that ongoing revelation so, in some
>ways, it's "business as usual."  There are differences, however, in that
>this time the Hierarchy is in the process of externalization. That is they
>will slowly and progressively work outwardly in the world, in full view,
>guiding the nations with wise counsel. It will be up to humanity to choose
>to accept this guidance or not (free will) and it is up to humanity to
>put into action the recommendations put forth by the Hierarchy to "salvage" 
>the present world degradations.  Without humanity's willing cooperation, 
>naught can be done.  

Cooperation toward what end?  What makes you so sure the "Hierarchy (whoever 
you think they are) are "in the process of externalization" -- other than the 
dubious word of Benjamin Creme and his (probably self named) Maitreya, who 
claims to be a descended Master (yet, does and says things that a real Master 
would never do... See my previous posts)?  What is the plan to "salvage the 
present world degradations"?  Seems, as if all this talk is an obvious repeat 
of the same plan Besant and Leadbeater had when they brought in Krishnamurti 
as the new Savior, which he later denied. I wonder if this Maitreya will be 
as wise?  So far, I have not read anything that Maitreya says that differs 
radically from the fundamental teachings of theosophy which anyone can get 
from a book.    
>
>So this also represent a bit of a new method of work for the Hierarchy and
>Humanity in that they will be openly working together.  The relationship
>that has been esoteric will become exoteric.  This certainly symbolizes
>that humanity has reached a stage, as a world disciple, wherein there is
>some "contact" with the world soul (represented by the Hierarchy). 

Makes no sense. Even Jesus couldn't accomplish any meaningful changes while 
he was on the scene.  And the Christians who followed him, didn't do much 
better.  In fact, they managed to make things even worse for ceturies to 
come.  Did you get that information directly from the Master's themselves, or 
are you just parroting Creme?  At least Bailey had the dubious credentials of 
DK, and a generally mystical, if not totally incoherent, new theory of "rays" 
and "white magic" to back up her claim of a "new dispensation" (which 
incidentally, is a solely Christian concept).  Is it possible that this 
Maitreya is just another rung on the ladder of attempts to Christianize 
theosophy, starting with Besant and leadbeater, followed by Bailey, and now 
ending with a last ditch effort by Creme -- with a possibly innocent and wise 
Maitreya as his tool?  Or, are they both in cahoots?  The coincidences here 
with the Besant - Leadbetter - Bailey connection are becoming more and more 
obvious the more you say about it -- and especially when we read the things 
Creme has to say on these same subjects.
>
>This will certainly inaugurate an experience of "Brotherhood" for humanity
>which has until now been lacking in general.  This is a great achievement
>for humanity, although there will be greater levels of this to understand
>and express in the future.  For example, for the Hierarchy this represents
>the expression of "Group Work" and a demonstration of Brotherhood at such
>a synthetic level that we cannot fathom.  This is a part of their
>evolutionary journey as well as ours.

What makes you so sure of something "that we cannot fathom"?  are you just 
guessing or do you have some facts or ven logic to back up your wild 
assumptions.  How will he do all that?  What will inaugurate such an 
experience?  Christian's accepting a new reappearance of Jesus? Muslims 
accepting the appearance of the Mahdi? Hindus and Buddhists accepting the 
appearance in the flesh of the Kalki avatar, or the "real" Maitreya?  How 
will that improve the concept of "Universal Brotherhood"?  Sounds more and 
more like Bailey and her empty dream that group prayer and acceptance of the 
Christian belief in the coming of a "savior" will solve all the problems of 
the world.  IMHO, without a definite "image" of a future "unity in diversity" 
based on "liberty with equality" that everyone from Nairobi and Iran to 
America and China can enthusiastically accept and live with along with their 
own idea of (the good) "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" -- no 
amount of group "prayer" or reorganization of the world's religions will ever 
work -- nor will any "magic" led by phony Masters.

It could be possible, though, if that "savior" can convince everyone that he 
is truly the representative of the hierarchy, and at the same time, can issue 
and enforce (without policemen and governmental edicts) his command that 
everyone immediately join in a "universal brotherhood" -- throw off all 
differences and separations between the various religions and their 
sectarianisms, along with the secular world, and put them all to work in 
correcting the "depredations" brought about by their forebears. 

It certainly would be interesting to find out how he would be accomplishing 
all that.  So far, all we have heard seems to be nothing but "Big Talk" 
without any substance or qualifications.  C'mon... Give us some real ideas to 
discuss here, other than all this pointless and endless proselytizing of yet 
another new Messiah, and arguing about whether or not he's another phony 
flash in the pan -- or a legitimate teacher and clarifier of the theosophical 
truths -- that HPB, apparently, already brought to us in its first and last 
fundamental "dispensation."  

In any event, if Maitreya really were able to do what he says, lays his "new" 
plan out so all can hear, and proves that the plan confirms with theosophical 
truth, and has no ulterior motives, I would be the first one to join in and 
give him help.  But, without such assurances, I wouldn't recommend that 
anyone accept him blindly on the word of proselytizers who spout old and 
tired, empty talk -- signifying nothing but their own wishful thinking. 

LHM

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