Theos-Talk Archives (May 2000 Message tt00161)

With reference to the various posts on numbers, and the neo theosophy of 
Bailey, Besant, Leadbeater et al...

Sure, numbers are cool... But, before we get caught up in linear numbers, and 
their spiritual, emotional or romantic relationships, if any, we have to 
realize that, at the source, there can only be infinite, dynamic, nonlinear 
abstract motion or *spin* (which In my scientific theory of ABC, I call 
"spinergy") circling around a static, inert and dimensionless *zero-point*. 
(*-----* = italics)  

Speaking strictly from the standpoint of "primal beginnings," this spinergy 
manifests first, as a *spherical* rather than as a linear geometry.  Thereby, 
making the jump from zero to one, which then resolves into three... 
Introducing the idea of *rational* numbers.  The "line" in the circle (after 
the circle with the central "dot") is simply a symbolic representation of 
this apparently sequential process -- which also, incidentally, introduces 
the notion of above and below, positive and negative, vibration, and Time. 
(And its "ultimate division," as described by Patanjali and explained by HPB 
and WQJ -- but NOT by AAB, or her Jesuit minded coconspirators). 

Spin, however, is related to polarity.  Therefore, when individualized, the 
initial triple manifestation of such spin takes place on its axial plane's 
circumference and diameter -- where *irrational* numbers enter the picture. 
This planar concept also relates to the spin, revolution, or rotation on 
separate, individualized axes of the entire manifest universe, as well as 
that of its galaxies, solar systems, stars, planets, particles, energy 
fields, etc. -- which are in themselves, spherical -- whether as 
transcendental coenergetic fields or as fundamental material particles. 

This also relates, from the standpoint of axial spin, to the appearance of 
galaxies and solar systems as flat rotating disks.  Inxidentally, HPB, 
limited by the metaphysically descriptive paucity of the English language, 
and the primitive classical science of the 19th century, used the word 
"plane" to describe the various levels of consciousness related to the 
chakras within the all enclosing spherical (Ring Pass Not) primal field, or 
within each successive descending triune monadic field and its sub fields.  

Thus, Pi appears, after manifestation, as the ratio between circumference and 
diameter and, thereby, irrational (as well as rational) numbers became the 
basis of the linear empirical measurements of classical science -- whose 
mathematical roots are the Euclidean and Pythagorean plane and spherical 
geometries.  However, modern relativistic, quantum and cosmological sciences 
now recognize the nonlinear nature of multidimensional primal, zero-point 
*space*, and thus find that their theoretical understanding of relativity, 
quantum effects, gravity fields and other forces of nature, etc., conform to 
both the rational numbers and the irrational numbers, as well as the linear 
and nonlinear geometries. 

The indeterminacy at the quantum level is also related to the relationships 
between rational and irrational numbers as well as between real and imaginary 
numbers.  This accounts for the apparent paradox of universal existence as 
both a wave and a particle -- which, also relates to the paradox of the 
*opposites* such as the simultaneity of spirit (or consciousness) and 
substance (or matter), subject and object, emptiness and fullness, unity and 
diversity, one and many, etc.  But, the triune nature of manifest spin, 
representing primal spirit (Perusha), soul (Mahat-Fohat), and matter 
(Prakriti) -- extending from its positive to its negative polarity -- is 
fundamental... 

It follows, that the duality of universal spirit (Perusha) and universal 
substance (Prakriti), the two within the one Absolute -- that is zero -- is 
the first derivative, and the inner involutionary root of the three, the one, 
the four, the one, the five, the twice seven, (that is) the *sum total*.  
(See: Book of Dzyan, stanza IV and its commentaries.)  Also, count the number 
of spheres within spheres within the Primal "Mother" field that finally 
results in the seven fold nature of phenomenal existence on all planes or 
chakra levels. (See: diagrams at website below)

For a fuller understanding of these relationships, one must combine both 
linear and nonlinear as well as rational and irrational numbers in their 
simultaneous thought processes while meditating on primal beginnings, 
involutions, evolutions, endings and re-beginnings...  Always remembering, 
"As above, so below," and that "numbers" represent measurements, counts, 
levels and modes of action, as well as  steps or stages along a path.

For an aid to mindful visualization of the above, as well as the 
relationships between non linear fields and linear planes upon which cyclic 
effects occur, see and ponder on the primal energy field diagram at:
http://members.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html
(Meditation Hint: As a relationship between rational and irrational numbers 
as well as linear and nonlinear forms, consider the primal field's overall 
relationship to the pyramidal diamond geometry inscribed within it as well as 
within all of its inner spherical sub fields).

To consider numbers, per se, as having any relationship to spiritual wisdom 
or consciousness -- other than as a mathematical tool for the confirmation or 
measure of the effects of fundamental universal law, is purely speculative.  
>From a theosophical standpoint, we are all individualized reflections or rays 
emanating directly from the primal zero-point of universal origin -- which 
has no relationship to strictly intellectual, emotional or romantic 
notions... But, is the basis of the idea that universal brotherhood is a 
fundamental "law of nature."  Our personal karma depends upon our conformance 
(or nonconformance) with this law -- but not on any belief in the divine 
nature of the source, or identification with any words describing our 
individual emotional or romanticized states of consciousness.  Compassion for 
others, nevertheless, is a first derivative of the law of Universal 
Brotherhood, and its selfless application, along with proper meditational 
practices, allows us to rise toward spiritual consciousness, rather than 
bring such consciousness down to our physical world to mitigate our karma -- 
as vicarious atonement, belief in a personal god and/or descended Masters, 
and group prayer or invocations attempt to do.  All these fruitless ploys to 
gain "followers" are the trappings of organized religions and plain old 
priestcraftiness. 

True Science (with its understanding of both the metaphysical and the 
physical forces and forms based on "the Harmony of the Spheres" in *exact* 
conformance with the fundamental principles) and fundamental theosophical 
teachings (as presented by HPB and the Masters), are one and the same. 

LHM
http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/

------------------------------------
In a message dated 05/17/00 12:14:14 PM, ecarpent@co.la.ca.us writes:

>This stuff about numbers is super cool.
>
>I have recently learned (Zero, Biography of a Dangerous Idea, by Seife)
>that rational numbers occupy zero space on the number line! The irrationals
>occupy most, if not all, of the number line!
>
>Also, all measurments in science, of matter, are irrational numbers!(same
>source)
>
>Perhaps "Pythagoras" was keeping something secret.  Perhaps only the
>rational numbers are to be used in Subjective Pantheism(Wisdom).  The
>irrational numbers and the entire number line are part of the domain of
>Objective Panthesim(science and it's abstract metaphysical basis).
>
>Wisdom: knowledge of Spirit
>Science: knowledge of Matter
>Wisdom Science: knowledge of both with all conflicts harmonized.
>Real Numbers:  The rational numbers, the numbers of Wisdom. (in continuity)
>with the irrational numbers, the numbers of science)
>
>The Buddhic Plane contains a symbol of the circle or chakra with a line
>across it.  Could this line be the number line?????.  Could this line in
>relationship to the circumference be the Divine and Mysterious Pi, world
>soul of the creator, Humanity?(microcosmically speaking).  The smooth and
>continuous centrifugal and centripetal forces of our Life?
>
>Love,
>
>Gene
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: Eldon B Tucker <eldon@theosophy.com>
>To: theos-talk@theosophy.com <theos-talk@theosophy.com>
>Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 9:17 PM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Mathematics, Spinoza, Leibniz
>
>>Another interesting thing to consider is the nature of numbers.
>>In a somewhat hasty nutshell, we could say that ...
>>
>>Real numbers measure things that physically exist, that are
>>tangible, and might be quantified. These include two types of
>>numbers. The rational numbers are like the domain of relationships.
>>Every rational number is a relationship between two integers, two
>>whole numbers. The other type of real numbers are the irrational,
>>like pi, which represent some intangible relationship, where some
>>being is related to "something higher," like pi, the golden mean,
>>or e (as in the bell-shaped curve and statistics.)
>>
>>When we move to include the unmanifest, the realm of the potentially
>>existing in relationship to that which exists, we have complex
>>numbers. A complex number has a real number, the existing part, and
>>the imaginary number, the unmanifest, "subjective," aspect, somewhat
>>like an "astral prototype".
>>
>>Here's a first cut at some preliminary thoughts on relating
>>types of numbers to the parts of a being:
>>
>>complex number (a whole being)
>>. real number (a manifest being)
>>   . rational number (buddhic nature, active karmic relationships)
>>     . numerator (a particular being, which the other is measured
>>       by, karmic effect)
>>     . denominator (how this other being appears in the first, karmic cause)
>>   -or-
>>   . irrational number (archetypal relationship between person and
>>     something great)
>>     . e.g. two lines, a radius and a circumference, related by the ratio pi
>>. imaginary number (unmanifest being)
>>   . rational number (buddhic nature, latent karmic relationships)
>>     . numerator (a particular being, which the other is measured
>>       by, karmic effect)
>>     . denominator (how this other being appears in the first, karmic cause)
>>   -or-
>>   . irrational number (archetypal relationship between person and
>>     something great)
>>     . e.g. two lines, a radius and a circumference, related by the ratio pi
>>
>>-- Eldon Tucker
>>
>
>>At 03:26 PM 5/16/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>>Was taught once that what we apparently see as, ... -1, 0, 1, ... is
>>>actually an illusion
>>>and what may actually be happening is more akin to 0, 1, 0 as visually
>>>demonstrated
>>>by the Tibetan dorje.
>>>
>>>Spencer

-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com

Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com.