Theos-Talk Archives (May 2000 Message tt00125)

May 15th 2000

Dear Dennis:

Many thanks for your response.

I have read many (not all) of the books that you refer to.

There is in THEOSOPHY an original source (for us) through HPB.

I assume you may agree with me that following this "original
writing/source" there have been many attempts at modification and
improvement, as well as the introduction of "new/novel" stuff.
One has to know the true to detect the false.  I try to focus on
what THEOSOPHY teaches, and not the information that is/was sent
floating around it --  and some of which is very distracting, not
to say misleading

Following her death many have tried to extend this by adding
extraneous material either drawn form their minds or hopes, or
perhaps, from the astral plane by some form of mediumship or
channeling.

To keep the slate as clear as possible, let me say that I study
ORIGINAL THEOSOPHY, and in general have fond most of the add-ons
to be "lead-aways."  That is of course my opinion.  By "Original
theosophy" I mean that which HPB or W Q. Judge wrote.  I found
Judge to be very reliable and close to HPB, also she wrote of him
in terms of high praise -- so there must be something there we
can gain by a close study of both of them.

We seemingly have been born around the same decade (1920s).  I
always was interested in organizing what I learned or read, so as
to be able to retrieve it later, and devised a series of loose
leaf notes filed by subject that could lead me back to the
original source (instead of relying on my UNRELIABLE memory
alone., as I do not like being told I was either wrong or
inaccurate.)  It is for this reason that I asked for sources.

Many thanks,

Dallas

----------------------------------------------

D. T. B.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com
[mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of Dennis Kier
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 12:55 PM
To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World MONADIC EVOLUTION Part 4

> DTB Reference please ?  Where and Who said that ?
>
> Dear Dennis:
>
> As far as I am concerned this needs a lot of referencing to
help
> me to check out the novel statements that I read in what you
> write.  I hope you will not mind finding them for me.  I would
be
> obliged.
>

Novel! well, that is one way of putting it. Olcott, Djual Kuhl,
Monroe,
Regardie, Silva. Not HPB, so therefore Novel? For more than a
century others
have been building on the base that HPB built, and have become
classics in
themsrlves.

> DK And Damodar came to the conclusion while he was living at
> ADYAR in the headquarters, that HPB was a dead body reanimated
by the
Master, and the other Masters.
>
> DTB Again.  Do you have an actual reference that corroborates
> this ?

This is a letter that starts (Letter #2) on page 33, in the book
by Sven
Eek, DAMODAR, published by the Theosophical Publishing House,
Adyar, India,
1978.

It says, (that Damodar wrote), "My inference then is that the
real H.P.B. is
nothing but either a paralyzed soul or a dead body under the
control of some
adept."

That is a pretty astute observation, given the recent analysis by
Daniel.

I am sure that you have recognised it all by now, but for those
not as well
read as you, the quote is from letter No. 2 dated Bombay, 24th
January,
1880, written to William Q Judge. Mr. Judge later fictionalized
it all as "A
Hindu Chela's Diary." And the original of the letter is said to
be in the
Point Loma Theosophical Society, which I assume is now the
Pasadena
Theosophical University Press.

That particular sentence of his observations is on page 39 of the
book
DAMODAR.

Your post is pretty concentrated writing, and I will study it for
some time
later.

I was born in the 1920s, and when I was young, when I was trying
to remember
where I had read a fact or episode, I could even remember the
color of the
cover of the book or magazine to help me track down the book.

I have never been married, and the upside to that is that I can
get to a
vastly more amount of email, books, magazines, and all that. The
downside is
that I have a lot more material to try to remember where it is,
and I can no
longer remember the color of the cover, or whether the quote is
in a book or
a magazine.

The last time I was asked for a source, I looked at all the
probable sources
first, and finally ended up finding it in a book that the asker
had written.
As far as I know, you don't write books, so we can rule that out.
And as in
my quote above from Olcott, if it wasn't written by HPB, you will
not allow
the observation or report to impinge upon your consciousness as
being even
remotely credible. Since these events that I have read or written
about
happened at sometime after the death of HPB, that narrows the
search down
even further.

It is sort of surprising that no one here (evidently) reads any
books
written later than the early 1890s. I started off mentioning Old
Diary
Leaves, and very few here had even heard of it, let alone ever
seen a copy.
And no one has ever read anything by Djual Kuhl/Alice Bailey, but
they have
very definite oppinions about the quality and veracity of the
writing there.
And people get even more upset when Maury mentions a modern
investigator/discoverer like Robert Monroe, or Jose Silva.

I can say definitely that probably HPB has not written much about
the things
I mention above, and you will not find anything that I say about
where I
read those things credible in your mind. I don't recall just
exactly where I
read the things that you don't dismiss out-of-hand, like Olcott,
but I will
put up a flag, and when I run across them again, I will be sure
to let you
know where they are.

Saying "Vague and Uncertain" is a good way to dismiss facts that
one does
not wish to acknowledge. I will try to remember which facts you
wish to
acknowledge and which not.

MMe. Alexandra David-Neel travelled extensively in Tibet, and
discusses the
customs she finds there sometime before the First World war, and
even
mentions staying at a lodging run by a local branch of Theosophy,
somewhere
near the border of Tibet. I have a lot of those books written in
or about
the time that HSO passed away, in and out of the Theosophical
Society. Some
have indexes and some do not. As I get to references that you
might be
interested in, I will write them down. I will comment on the rest
of the
above when I get the time to look up all the references.

Dennis




-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk --
theos-talk@theosophy.com

Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting
of
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com.


-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com

Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com.