Theos-Talk Archives (March 2000 Message tt00002)

----- Original Message -----
From: W. Dallas TenBroeck <dalval@nwc.net>
To: <theos-talk@theosophy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 6:16 AM
Subject: Theos-World RE: RE: DTB = D on HPB'S WORK AND MASTERS


> > You ask about  HPB and her work.  She was emphatically not a
> > "shell."  She was an Adept and worked as such.  There are
> > apparently times when an Adept can allow a Brother Adept to use
> > as their "vehicle" the body that one has to use in any one
> > incarnation.  But the "owner of the body"  does NOT lose
> > consciousness -- only "stands aside" for a while as HPB
> describes
> > it clearly.  It is unimportant that you may interpret things
> you
> > study differently from myself.  That is always true among
> > students.
>

I see. I was under the impression that this was a conversation. I see it is
a word/defination discussion. I will try to alter my approach to communicate
better in that mode.

HPB says" Someone comes and envelopes me as a misty cloud and all at once
pushes me out of myself, and then I am not 'I' anymore-- Helena Petrovna
Blavatsky-- but someone else....I even understand and remember it all so
well that afterwards I can repeat it and even write down his words...."

I suppose that you wish me to put in here the reference, so you can go and
read it for yourself, and as you probably have the material close at hand,
it was from a letter written by H.P.B. to her sister, vera, and was one of a
series published by William Q. Judge in his magazine, The Path, December
1894, Vol IX, No. 9, p.266.

The Evaluation of the situation by another who knew her is that, "I will put
forth my own theory, For the purpose of the theosophical work that body was
an instrument used by one of the Masters, known to us as H.P.B.  When he had
to attend to other business, the instrument was left in charge of one of his
pupils or friends, who ran the body as an engineer directs his machine when
taking duty for another...."
This is from Dr. Keightley, (who helped put toghether the SD.) Theosophical
Quarterly, New York, Vol. VII, October, 1910. Republished in Theosophia, Los
Angeles, Vol. XVI, No. 1, p.20.

You say she was not a "shell". Olcott & the Masters called her that, but in
a colloquial way. There may not be a real good technical description of what
she was. One of the Masters called the shell, "it and the brother inside
it." Old Diary Leaves, Vol. 1, p.247. There are other instances, but if you
read the book, you should find them.

One Technical term is "Tulku", but they say she was not exactly that, but in
a situation similar to that. ODL, V.1, p. 243--246. Another definition of
the term is on page 481 of BLAVATSKY COLLECTED WRITINGS, Vol. 1.

Earlier in the last century, around 1918, the Communists killed the Tzar and
his family. One of the daughters, not at the end of her Karma, found the
body of a Polish girl, a few years older than her, who had tried to commit
suicide, and the body was lying in a hospital bed, in a coma. When this body
woke up, it had the memories of the Russian Princess, -Anastasia-. People
who had known the Russian, said that the awakened girl had all the memories
and mannerisms of Anastasia. DNA tests a few years ago proved that she was
no physical relation to the Royal Families of europe.

This was no doubt, an example of the Tulku process happening accidently.
It happened again a few years earlier in England, when a little 4 year old
girl named Dorothy Eady fell down stairs, went into a coma, and when she
woke up in her own bed, demanded to be taken home. And, she didn't mean
England.

Jonathan Cott wrote a book about it, THE SEARCH FOR OMM SETY. I'll bet that
he didn't set the type for it, or run the presses, or order the thing done
by himself either.  Published by Doubleday & Company, Garden City, New York,
1987,  ISBN 0-385-23746-4.

She found her home when they visited the British Museum, in the Egyptian
section. She wanted to stay. She asked why things were all old and broken,
since when she had gone to sleep, everything was new and and painted.

The point is that this happens in nature, and the Tibetan Lamas have made
use of this human characteristic & ability, to mimic it when projecting
their consciousness. They usually keep their own natural body, and just
overwhelm, or overshadow the "shell" of the person they wish to use.
Sometimes it is their students.

The masters had a problem with Karma. They looked long and hard for a
"European Body" that they could send out to Europe & America to teach their
beliefs, and to start their Society.They didn't want the Karma associated
with taking over a living person who was not through with their life, so
thay looked and waited.

HPB had been associated with them before this incarnation, and She had met
her "Adept" in London In (1851 if I recall correctly). She got involved in a
war, and needed assistance. They threw the body in a ditch since they
thought she was dead. Olcott said that she had shown him where her arm had
been broken in two places, and a severe wound over the heart, and another
one as well, from that battle.

Her Master re-animated her, and they formed a "club" to use her, much in the
manner of a TULKU, except that  one of them occupied the body all the time.
They took turns. There were 7 Masters in the group.

In the Collected Works, Vol.1, pp. 414--415, bottom of p. 414 they note
"Narayan left watch-- and in came Sahib. (Master M) The latter with orders
from Serapis to complete all by the first days of December." In the
MAHATMA LETTERS TO A.P.SINNETT, letter # 45, he closes with "I am called to
duty." p.246.  What duty? -well, it is his turn to animate the shell, and
not let it die. (my conclusion, of course)

In OLD DIARY LEAVES, Vol. 1, p 289, 290, 291. concerning Olcott's Technical
Term for the shell, "avesa"
"To return to the matter of the occupancy (avesa) of H.P.B.'s body. ... Let
us say that the Master A or B had been "on guard" an hour or more, had been
working on ISIS, alone or jointly with me, and was at a given moment saying
something to me, or if third parties were present to one of them. Suddenly
she (he?) stops speaking, rises and leaves the room, excusing herself for a
moment on some pretext to strangers. She presently returns, looks around as
any new arrival would upon entering a room where there was company, makes
herself a fresh cigarette, and says something which has not the least
reference to what had been talked about when whe left the room. Some one
present, wishing to keep her to the point, asks her kindly to explain. She
shows embarrassment and inability to pick up the thread;.... says, "Oh yes:
excuse me," and goes on with her subject.  She was sometimes as quick as
lightning in these changes, and I myself, forgetting her multiplex
personality, have often been irritated for her seeming inability to keep to
the same subject....

On the same page, Olcott describes how the Master occupies the body.
"entered and by slow degrees occupied the whole body of the dead down to its
very feet."

This brings to mind the Hawaiian practice of the Kahunas sending one of
their captive spirits (like you think HPB was when standing beside her body
when a Master was inside) to attack & kill a victim. Max Freedom Long, THE
SECRET SCIENCE BEHIND MIRACLES, & THE SECRET SCIENCE AT WORK. They claim
that in the process of the attack, first the feet go numb, and the numbness
creeps up the body, and when it reaches the heart region, the victim dies.

The Masters are evidently using some similar capacity of the human body when
they do their thing. They also use this capacity when they wish to recognize
a new Dali Lama, or other reincarnational Lama, when they energize the body
of a baby, to see if it will recognize the tools and possessions of the old
Lama.

In Old Diary Leaves, Vol. 1, p 291, "I have noted above how various
Mahatmas, in writing to me about H.P.B. and her body, spoke of the latter as
a shell occupied by one of themselves."

> After her death (as far as I can see and read) he made some
> accusations that he had not dared utter to her while she was
> alive.  He also showed his animosity to Mr. Judge in more ways
> than one and was instrumental in promoting the "Judge Case"
> beyond reasonable limits, especially as it had been terminated in
> July 1894,  and  BROTHERHOOD was the prime Object of the
> Theosophical Society.

As for BROTHERHOOD, I note very little of it in the Theosophical Community,
what with 3 or more distinct organizations, locally, all claiming to be the
One, True, and Original society. If there were true Brotherhood, you would
think that they could all get together, stop fighting each other, stop
wasting their members money duplicating each other's efforts, and try to
extend Brotherhood to each other as well as the potential new members.

> Olcott asked one of the Adepts, when they were together how many
> different
> varieties of Adept there is, and the Master said 65.
>
> DTB Do you have the reference for this statement?  I cannot
> recollect it.  I would be obliged for your giving me the source
> for it.  Where did the Master say "65 ?"
> Is there anything else given there in additional explanation?
> I would very much like to be able to see it.
> To myself I say:  And why "65" and not "70 ?"
> I cannot recollect reading this in MAHATMA LETTERS, or some of
> the other sources that have reprinted Masters' letters.  But then
> I have not read everything either.

I must confess that I made an error in quoting that number from memory. The
number is "63". ODL, Vol.1 p278.

There is another quotation which points to there being more than one type on
each level. Collected Writings, Volume XIV, p. 435 , These degrees are
"based (on) the seven and twelve degrees of the Hierarchy of Adeptship.....
All these are men, and not disembodied Beings,..."

And then there is another matter. As a shell, (Avesa, Tulku, whatever name
you may wish to use) HPB did very slight phenomena before she got the bullet
to the heart fighting for Garibaldi. After the Group of Seven took over the
body, it could do all sorts of phenomena. It was the battery for the
transfer of letters back and forth from and to the Masters. After her death,
they quit sending letters, claiming that there was no more power.

Collected Writings, Vol. XIII, p. 93,
"....It has never claimed to be the full exposition of the system (it
advocates) in its totality; (a) because as the writer does not boast of
being a great Initiate, she could, therefore, never have undertaken such a
gigantic task; and (b) because had she been one, she would have divulged
still less..."

You and Mr. Judge say that she is an Adept. She says she was not. Who shall
one believe?

I have seen plump individuals used as batteries for mediums at many
churches. It is rather common, once you know what to look for. It is obvious
that HPB had this capacity.

So, it is back to studying the material, and noting those things that have
special meaning for me. It appears to me that your purpose in studying
Theosophy, is to Study Theosophy. My purpose is to evolve closer to the end
of the Adept state, and beyond. There is a lot of material to put together,
and to make a pattern, and to put it into practice. Otherwise, for me, it is
just an intellectual exercise for the purpose of doing the exercise.

Dennis

I left out lots of quotes. Hope no one minds.




-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com

Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com.