Theos-Talk Archives (May 1999ar Message tt00108)

May 13

Dear Gerry Druckerman:

Your observation evoked in me the following considerations and
response and I hope you may consider these and see if you find
them to be useful.  They are of course my own views developed
over many years of work in Science and with Theosophy to help me
also.

While we may not be schooled in the intricacies of modern Science
and its many descriptive terms and expressions, there are certain
things that are basic to all study and this includes "Science."
For the moment let us forget the terms, which if necessary we can
acquire a facility in using them if we need it -- it is their
special kind of "short-hand" and lets them communicate with each
other more quickly.

We do the same thing in Theosophy, for if we study the basic
books like THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY by Mme. Blavatsky, we will be
able to master the Theosophical "short-hand" and most of the
important terms used in its study.

Basically of course Science and Theosophy study Nature.  Our
modern Science has arisen in the last 4 to 600 years and in the
last 200 has flowered in terms of detail, complexity and its
ability to probe into the physical aspects of nature's present
manifestation.  One might say that modern Science is "WESTERN
OCCULTISM."

Much of the training is Science is to enable a precise
descriptive vocabulary to develop.  Of course, to the average
person, this sounds like a foreign tongue.  But, basically it is
communications.  The rest is learning the formulae that express
those aspects of Nature's Laws which they have, on analysis,
reduced to measured observations.

All these things, whether Science or Theosophy, take some time to
acquire facility in.  But to live the life of a reasonable
person, does not require a vocabulary, but only good-will for
others, and hence, in Theosophy, BROTHERHOOD is held to be basic.
If one desires to be of service to others, and to himself, he has
to learn the laws of living, and this requires study and then
application of those principles that are found to be reasonable,
fair and universally true.

It should be noted that the measurements we currently use are
arbitrary and pertain to the conventions Science (and Government)
has adopted almost universally these days, in this era.  In
other, more ancient times, they used different measurements --
these can be found in the ancient languages of Egypt, Greece,
Rome, Assyria, Chaldea, Persia, China, India, Central and South
America, etc... even today we find that there are two widely used
and intraconvertible systems -- the one based on the metric
system (gram, meter, second), and the other based (British and
American) on "foot, pound, second."

If this simplified view is grasped, the rest is simply the use of
vocabulary and nomenclature to describe what one is able to see
happening in Nature or in experiment.  Nature has her own
measuring tools and bases.  It is said that one of the things
that the Adept learns in "the ultimate divisions of Time."  But
we are not yet given an idea of what that is.

Obviously "Time" involves Karma-- universally, and therefore the
"time" of any one Universe will differ from others.  What is
named DURATION is of course timelessness.  INFINITUDE and
VIBRATION (Motion) are the other two indefinite measures  (from
our point of view).

One other observation of a general character ought to be made.
Our modern science is developing its powers to measure based on
increasing refinement of instrumentation.  it seeks to probe
simultaneously the "infinitely small"  (atoms and sub-atomic
particles and their rules and laws) and the "infinitely great" --
the ever and increasingly broad and unfathomable UNIVERSE -- our
Earth being only a very minor (and probably quite unimportant)
member of that.  This may bruise our pride and self-importance,
but that is a fact.  However we have to deal with our selves, our
ideas, fancies, aspirations,  desires, ambitions and place these
into juxtaposition with REALITIES.

Modern Science is confronted with the very few traces of really
ancient knowledge and wisdom and presumes that "Science" and
"Technology" in the past was very limited.  This is however no
more true that the scattered fossils it uses to derive concepts
of the evolutionary development of the FORM of man are a sound
basis for deciding (in theory) that Man, as a form, is derived
from an Ape body; or that animal intelligence produced human
intelligence and therefore the ape gave way to the savage and the
savage to our civilized community -- and there are savages living
in the Amazon or New Guinea and Central Africa which are a very
great contrast to us her in America or Europe, or any Modern
City.  Theory should be strongly dissociated from FACT.

One more idea strikes me as important:  Theosophy is largely
HISTORY.

The great books ISIS UNVEILED and the SECRET DOCTRINE are a
record that bridges the gaps caused in the past by the
destruction of the great Libraries -- and this serves to make
mythology, lore and legend as well as the terms used in ancient
religions and philosophies of which we have some record readable
and understandable.

If Theosophy is history, THEN SCIENCE OUGHT TO PICK UP THE
INFORMATION AND USE IT.  Of course, then, there would be little
honor or pride in "DISCOVERY."  But what is the use of that
unless it gives tenure and position for those Egos that are full
of pride and ambition ?

Some of the basics include for everyone, scientific man or
layman, cultured, scholarly, learned  savage, or ignorant:

1.	Mathematics.
2.	Measurement.
3.	Truth in reporting and accuracy -- errors and exceptions to be
faithfully reported.
4.	Relationship of observations -- theory about laws of
recurrence or analogy.
		NOTE: Theories should be so proclaimed so the student is aware
of potential
			changes.  New discovery may alter and current "theory."
5.	Inter-relation of all aspects of Science.  Nature is entirely
inter-related.
6.	NATURE contains all.  SCIENCE only studies Nature and her
laws.
7.	Mind is independent of sentiment, anticipation, Ego--personal
ambition and pride, and
		is capable of investigating all things intellectually and
without any limits at all.
		It would be PREJUDICE and not knowledge to assign or
pre-suppose that
		there are limits to KNOWING or MEASUREMENT, or anything.
		"Man is a FREE AGENT" ... but he cannot escape his past Karma
(SD I 639)
8.	Existence of the Mind proves universality -- and our relation
to everything else in the
		Universe -- "Each MONAD is the mirror of every other, and of
its Universe."
 		[ SD I  631-2 ]
9.	The UNIVERSE is embodied LIFE and Consciousness--The ultimate
cause and Aim of
		evolution is for EVERY MONAD (a detached drop of the ONE
ABSOLUTE) to
		rise through EVERY EXPERIENCE  to a complete and universal
PERCEPTION 		of the WHOLE.  (After Earth-life experience and
"graduation,"   What ?)
10.	The monad  (ATMA-BUDDHI) is the indestructible immortal
Eternal Pilgrim.  It will 			always exist.  [SD I 632 top traces
the 3 stages of the MONAD as it emerges
		from the undifferentiated MONADIC ESSENCE under the impulsion
of the law 		of KARMA -- for which there is no limit in time,
space or motion.  IT IS.
11.	The whole of Occultism is based on the "INFINITE DIVISIBILITY
OF THE ATOM."
		[ SD I 519-20 ]  This is basic.  "The MONAD IS THE SOUL OF THE
ATOM,"
		[ SD I 629, 632 ].
12.	All these things can be proved only SUBJECTIVELY as they are
only OBJECTIVE to 		the image creating capability of the MIND,
and that is INFINITE.  The magical 		power of our IMAGINATION has
to be tethered to facts, and not fancies.
13.	Materialism in terms of personal experience and KAMA-MANAS
has to be recognized 		in us and around us.  It has to be dropped
by an effort of WILL.  This allows 		the realities of the REAL
UNIVERSE to appear and serve as the BASIS for our 		thought.
14.	Provable realities are fundamentally:

		1.	WE EXIST -- AS A POINT OF CONSCIOUSNESS.
		2.	THE UNIVERSE EXISTS  -- AS ALL THAT IS "OUT THERE."
		3.	There is an ever on-going relationship between US and the
UNIVERSE
				this is what we are constantly studying and putting into our
				memory for future use and comparison.

15.	General Conclusions;

		1.	Universe IS everywhere and self-existent. GOD is not a
"PERSON."
				GOD IS THE UNIVERSE.  PANTHEISM IS A FACT.
		2.	WE, as MEN-MINDS, mirror potentially every aspect of the
UNIVERSE.
		3.	WE are ultimately OMNIPOTENT but we cannot exercise this
faculty
				without being absolutely HARMLESS to all other BEINGS and
				especially to other Humans.  Hence  Altruism, Impersonality,
				Benevolence, Brotherhood are mandatory ETHICAL needs.
		4.	EVOLUTION is universal [ apply mentally the statement found
at the top 				of p. 632, SD I :  "They say that what is
called... to p. 633:  				...and both are--MAYA."
		5.	WE are true IMMORTALS.  WE are learning how to behave as
IMMORTALS, and this begins simply at home, business and
everywhere where we go.  We need not run off to some 					distant
place.  Karma has placed us right where we are 					needed and
where our present DUTY lies.

If these can be constantly kept in mind and used as a basis for
living, we will find that many erroneous ideas and personal
practices stop.

The IMPERSONAL and DIVINE MAN inside us will be able to view our
PERSONALITY for what it is worth, and will be able to STOP IT
(and especially the bad habits we have developed and which we
observe without even thinking of them), from continuing to hamper
our future progress.

It is not necessarily what we "like" or what we "enjoy" that is a
goal for us to establish and work for;  but, rather to decide
what the future of our IMMORTAL AND REAL SELF ought to be, to be
of maximum assistance to itself IN ASSOCIATION WITH OTHERS.  In
this way our "PERSONALITY" alters itself to more closely
represent and embody in physical life the DIVINE MONAD that is
within each one of us.  "The closest place to GOD is in our own
Hearts."

We can have no PERSONAL growth WITHOUT, SIMULTANEOUSLY, BEING OF
BENEFIT TO OTHERS.  Our world, and the place that we occupy, is
COOPERATIVE.  We are always INTER-ACTIVE and dependent for our
physical lives on many other aspects of Nature: air, water, food,
clothing and shelter, etc...  Therefore we find our true duty to
be close at hand, as a service we can offer to others, and not
some fanciful creation of a deluded lower-mind that envisages
itself as a King who can "enjoy" without responsibility to our
local universe.

I do not know if that will be of any help, but it is that which I
have found helps me and my thinking.

To get back to Science:  this is, I think, the right kind of
"scientific" approach to learning, to our present capacities, and
to what we can do for others.  Compartmentalizing, and thinking
of our possible limits is of very little help.  If we recognize
our universality in potential, and the immensity of TIME that we
are going to be able to consciously dispose of, as IMMORTALS, we
will be well occupied forever more.

It is important to realize that a cessation of activity, of
repose, and the general idea that Heaven is an "escape hatch"
from this earth's vicissitudes, is a fancy.  It has no basis in
reason or reality.  There is no final and ultimate Nirvana or
Moksha or heaven--these are only ideas of a very long rest--with
no responsibilities, and perhaps, great boredom because of lack
of 'change.'   But there is, instead, WISDOM and an ever
developing field in which we can work intelligently and with the
purpose of serving others as they serve and help us, and how
each, in turn strives consciously or unconsciously, to reach the
stage of understanding that we are now able to use and which
gives us a glimpse of the immense vistas before us, in terms of
experience, time, and space to live in and through.

All good wishes, as always,

Dal

              Dallas TenBroeck
               dalval@nwc.net

===================================


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com
[mailto:owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com]On Behalf Of Gerry
Druckerman
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 10:46 AM
To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Observation Such a Bad Thing?


While it is true to some scientist , theosophy is theory, and to
others
worthless speculation, it is to my understanding that to Adepts
it is
science. For those of us attracted to theosophy, it resonates to
our
rational mind, appeals to our intuitive nature, and in some small
areas
we verify aspects of it in our own life (science). When we look
at the
present day science, the great majority of us cannot duplicate
and
verify much of what is proposed. It seems that puts us in a
similar
position of depending on our resources of rational mind and
intuition.

Gerry



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