Theos-Talk Archives (April 1999 Message tt00097)

Rich,

Thanks for the material from Buddhism.

The connection between the Buddhist 'Mano-vijnana', 'Klishta Manas' (Impure
Mind) and the Theosophical 'Lower Manas' seems obvious enough.  But what I
can't see is where the Buddhist use of the term "manas" relates to HPB's use
of "Higher Manas".   The latter is the "immortal Manas", The Re-incarnating
Ego in Theosophical Terms, the lower Manas being only a temporary emanation
of the 'Higher' during incarnation.   This is one way of understanding the
words attributed to the Buddha "there is no 'I' here" - "here" meaning the
lower Manas (impure, the fleeting personality) and the senses.

In the Theosophical Glossary HPB acknowledges the sanskrit origin of the
word 'manas' as meaning "the  mind" a mental faculty.  Yet she goes on to
point out that "Esoterically" it means something more:  'Esoterically', when
used unqualified it means the Higher (reincarnating) Ego, when used
qualified it means Buddhi-Manas, the Spiritual Soul as distinct from
Kama-Manas, its human reflection.  I think HPB is refering to these (Higher
and Spiritual Soul) in the following:

"The Higher Manas or EGO is essentially divine, and therefore pure."
(The Collected Writings, vol 10, p254)

and

"It [Manas] is, therefore, when inseparably united to the first two,
[Atma-Buddhi] called the SPIRITUAL EGO, and Taijasi (the radiant). This is
the real Individuality, or the divine man."

It seems to me that if we went by the sanskrit and Buddhist definitions
alone we might misunderstand the meaning that HPB and the Masters give to
these terms.  So did they (HPB, KH & M) borrow them, or are they explaining
the real Esoteric meaning of the terms and using them in that light?

Likewise HPB uses "Alaya" in different ways.  Sometimes, for example,
refering to it as ATMAN (see Voice of the Silence) and sometimes refering to
it as Mulaprakriti, in its essence.   With regards the Seven Human
principles, do you think Buddhi-Manas relates to "Alaya-vijnana (storehouse
consciousness)... a long-lasting consciousness, giving continuing from life
to life"?  It could do, if we bear in mind that Buddhi stores the spiritual
accretions of Manas, these being the result of its spiritual aspirations
throughout all its previous incarnations.  Any thoughts?


Finally, here is a passage below from the SD which shows that HPB
distinguished Lower Manas, mind in the exoteric sense,  from Higher Manas.
In this passage she examines the views on the senses and mind as found in
the Anugita.  The conversation reported is between a 'Brahmana and his
wife'.

"The Occult claim that there are seven senses in man, as in nature, as there
are seven states of consciousness, is corroborated in the same work, chapter
vii., on Pratyahara (the restraint and regulation of the senses, Pranayama
being that of the "vital winds" or breath). The Brahmana speaks in it 'of
the institution of the seven sacrificial Priests (Hotris). He says: 'the
nose and the eyes, and the tongue, and the skin and the ear as the fifth (or
smell, sight, taste, touch and hearing), mind and understanding are the
seven sacrificial priests separately stationed'; and which 'dwelling in a
minute space (still) do not perceive each other' on this sensuous plane,
none of them except mind. For mind says: 'The nose smells not without me,
the eye does not take in colour, etc., etc. I am the eternal chief among all
elements (i.e., senses). Without me, the senses never shine, like an empty
dwelling, or like fires the flames of which are extinct. Without me, all
beings, like fuel half dried and half moist, fail to apprehend qualities or
objects even with the senses exerting themselves.'

"This, of course, with regard only to mind on the sensuous plane. Spiritual
mind (the upper portion or aspect of the impersonal MANAS) takes no
cognisance of the senses in physical man."
(Secret Doctrine, vol 1, p96.)

Peter




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com
> [mailto:owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com]On Behalf Of
> Richtay@aol.com
> Sent: 08 April 1999 18:59
> To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
> Subject: Theos-World Concealed Consciousnesse(s)
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/8/99 3:30:53 PM, Jerry wrote:
>
> <<Manas is a Sanskrit word that means mind. Period. Mind is not
> consciousness
> itself.>>
>
> Some information from Buddhist tradition may shed light on this endless
> debate, but please know that I don't think Buddhist views necessarily
> supercede Theosophical ones.  They do tend to explain WHY
> Theosophy uses the
> terms that it does, and what they mean in the source material.
>
> In even the earliest Buddhism, before the Mahayana was publicly
> developed, it
> was taught that there were six sense-organs which produced six kinds of
> "consciousness."  Those six sense-organs (ayatanas) were eye, ear, nose,
> tongue, skin, and Manas.  Each produced in its turn appropriate
> consciousnesses (vijnana) namely sights, sounds, smells, tastes,
> touches, and
> ideas.  All six consciousnesses were considered extremely momentary,
> extremely unreliable.  The Buddha is on record as saying over and
> over again
> "These are not mine.  These are not a self.  There is no 'I'
> here."  Clearly,
> Manas was not highly regarded, being merely a (non-phusical) sense organ.
>
> Later Buddhism, Yogacara (or "Yoga-practicing") school, proposed
> that behind
> the mind-organ was another kind of consciousness, called Klishta Manas or
> "Impure Mind."  It was this consciousness, also related to the empirical
> world, which took in the sense-data of the six lower organs (including
> Mano-vijnana) and produced the (false) idea of the Ego experiencing
> everything.  Beyond this, the Yogacarins posited an Eighth kind of
> consciousness called Alaya-vijnana (storehouse consciousness).  It is a
> long-lasting consciousness, giving continuing from life to life
> (which none
> of the other vijnanas do) and this Eighth consiousness holds the
> seeds (bija)
> of karma, which ripen appropriately.
>
> We will notice that HPB uses the term Alaya quite frequently in
> the S.D., and
> it is quite a different term than Manas.  It would probably be a
> big mistake
> to confuse temporary sense-experience (Mano-vijnana, even Klishta
> Manas) with
> an all-encompassing consciousness like Alaya-vijnana.  They are certainly
> different kinds of consciousness, and not restricted to Manas in
> scope.  If
> HPB uses these terms *at all* like the Buddhists from whom she
> has borrowed
> them, we must get an inkling of the great difference between sensual and
> ideal, the ephemeral and the storehouse, the ego-encrusted and the
> Transcendent.
>
> Rich
>
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