Theos-Talk Archives (February 1999 Message tt00099)

Feb 16th

Dear Darren:

Thanks for your comments.  Some more notes are below.  I am
trying to see if some of the Theosophical concepts are helpful in
looking at our views.

Best wishes as always,

Dallas

====================================================

-----Original Message-----
From:	owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com
[mailto:owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com] On Behalf Of D.
Porter
Sent:	Tuesday, February 16, 1999 2:24 AM
To:	theos-talk@theosophy.com
Subject:	Theos-World RE: One Soul or Many Souls/ One Dream or
Many Dreams

Dear Dallas,

Sorry for the turnaround on the piece below...but i've been
rather busy. I
think you nicely tie up most threads by ending in the
theosophical
fundamentals, so i'll only address those that I personally have
not resolved

Regards

Darren

=================================================

DALLAS		DON'T FEEL PRESSURE, PLEASE.  Dal

*****************************************************************

>4.	Akasa has a number of attributes.  One has to look for them
in
>the SD Index and assemble them.  Chiefly, it is the eternal
>record of every Monad's experiences.  It does not vary, nor does
>it disappear.  It therefore is a record of history as well as of
>the adventures of every Monad.  Our past is there for the Wise
to
>review if necessary and for us to see when we have developed the
>wisdom and fortitude to stand such a perception.  It is not used
>for curiosity "surfing," but stands as a fact available for
those
>who may need it.

*** You say 'every monad' - but I thought there was only ONE
monad. This
seems to be another area i am making a hash of.


DALLAS.

I find that the word MONAD has been used in various ways.
Sometimes it means more than one component working in harmony
with others.

THE ONE MONAD metaphysically would include everything.

However, once that the Universe emanates from the ABSOLUTENESS
which is absolutely undefinable in any terms we know, the first
idea of manifestaion or solidification which is sometimes called
the FIRST CAUSE, or the CREATIVE CAUSE, or THE FIRST LOGOS, or
ADI-BUDDHA, or BRAHM, etc., one finds duality supervenes.

Then the  contrast of SPIRIT (or ATMA) and WISDOM (or Buddhi)
makes for the dual MONAD and is named at that stage also a MONAD
or the TWO-IN-ONE.  It is essentially the "Egg" of Brahma where
the polar opposites of Spirit and Matter form the basis for
contrast.

Then at that level, but conceptually it is third, is the
MANIFESTED LOGOS or the THREE-IN-ONE.  It consists of Spirit,
Matter and MIND.  The mind is essential as it is the BASIS FOR
PERCEPTION.  It perceives the difference between Force, Energy,
Power, and all the various kinds of Forms in which those work.

The whole scheme is laid out in the SECRET DOCTRINE starting at
about p. 153 and on p. 200 is a diagram that helps to explain
what is said up to then, but all the intervening pages ought to
be read as they are relevant.

On p. 181, SD Vol. 1, HPB gives an insight into the 3 lines of
evolution that conjoin to form our Universe/World, and thus are
the seat of man's consciousness and evolution as a
MIND-BEING--living in a physical body and having as goal, the
perfection of spiritual Wisdom in potential.

I hope this is not too confusing.  A good deal of study is needed
to grasp this. There is a shorter book which is true to the
SECRET DOCTRINE and which can be read in a shorter time to secure
the basic ideas.  It is named THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY, by Wm. Q.
Judge.  If you can get it, or have it, look and read chapters 2,
3, 4, 14, and 15.

I mention this because the whole evolutionary scheme which starts
with the metaphysics of the MONAD (or a "ray" of the Universal
Spirit) HAS TO PASS THROUGH THE Man-Mind stage and then return to
the Spiritual level having experienced all the many kinds of
situations in the physical, emotional and mental planes that make
up our environment and in which each of us all the time are
involved, while we live in our physical bodies.

Man is said to be a "microcosm" of the Great "Macrocosm."   All
the powers and potencies of vast Nature are locked up in him
right now.  And it is our task, incarnation after incarnation to
grasp and understand with our newly developing Minds, and then,
use them with care and benevolence for the benefit of all.  In so
doing we benefit ourselves and do not incur "bad" Karma.  The
idea is that the common source (Spirit) makes all men and all
other Beings brothers.  Hence as we would not be hurtful to a
brother, so we would not expect to be hurt.  No one, unless they
develop this attitude will ever be ever trusted with real
knowledge and power under the laws of Nature which are immutable.
We are all free within bounds.  We can all progress freely at our
own rate so long as we stay within reasonable bounds.  Even the
laws of our land (and the rest all around the world) seek to
apply this principle with as much equity as can be mustered.




>of man is essential to do this.  The "dreamer" is always the ONE
>CONSCIOUSNESS that is our true self, the decision maker and the
>user of the Mind as of all other faculties.  It is the pupil
>working in the school of Life from incarnation to incarnation
and
>using all the many personalities.  Our character and capacities
>are evidence of what we have learned and also indicate what
>remains for us to learn.

(we are the dreamers, the world-makers....)


DALLAS	IMAGINATION is called the "King faculty" - it enables us
to plan our future.  It is the active basis of the moral nature
that we have to develop.  It is the study of Karma and the whole
of Nature in evolution.

==============================

>7. 	You seem to confuse the idea of the UNIVERSAL SOUL with our
>own Soul Identity.  Our identity is our identity.  The Soul is
>the MIND.  It is your Monad which is using and working through
>the mental faculties.  The Mind serves to link the creative
>SPIRITUAL powers and forces with the MATERIAL FORMS and
>LIMITATIONS.  In great Nature or the UNIVERSE IN MANIFESTATION
>there is a corresponding link which consists of the united
>faculties of all Mind-beings.

Or the corollory - all mind-beings exist because of the ONE link,
but do
they exist objectively? I personally reject objectivism.


DALLAS;	perception AS WE EMPLOY IT EVEN NOW is always mental.
The senses input information, which is transformed into images in
the brain for the MIND to assess and present to the Perceiver
which is superior to it in executive power.  Then, looking
outward, the Perceiver sees, or uses some other sense to make a
picture of what is "out there."  We are always bound by our
senses.  Inwardly we are free of them, as we make our own
perceptions real, and save the memory and impression of them:  1,
as physical, or non-physical; 2, as emotions and feelings of
attraction or rejection; 3. As mind memories.

I mention these because we can experiment and see for ourselves
if the statement is true.  Science has recently determined and
proved that the brain is not the mind.  I secured this from
SCIENCE NEWS of 2 weeks ago.



>It is the universal cement that unites all living things and the
>source of LAW and justice and fairness.  Some term it divine
>love.  In another way we could call it the UNIVERSAL MONAD in
>which and from which all individual Monads have emerged.  No
this
>many be asking you to stretch your mind a good deal, but words
>are such limiting traps.  It is the story of the "Eye" versus
the
>"Heart" doctrine, always.

This makes me think of a film title i recently saw 'Love is the
Devil'.

======================================================

DALLAS;  all contrasts are in close proximity.  The value of
experience lies in the fact that we do know there is a
difference, and place MORAL values in judging our observations.

====================================

>8.	Necessity is a good question.  Why not simply say we are all
>here together.  We are all asking why.  And this kind of
>discussion brings out what we know and don't know.  Some
surmises
>are then checked out to see if they are valid or not in other
>minds.  If you have the SD, check vol. 2, p. 176 top on Desire
>(Universal Desire) also something is written on that on II p.
>578-9 and 484 bottom.  One thing is sure:  we are not the
>playthings of some vast Power.  And certainly not of a whimsical
>and cruel "Personal God."  The fact that there are so many
>religions and beliefs, and there is no move to either unify them
>or erase them, ought to make it plain that they are constructed
>by men to subjugate others.  Hence they befuddle the mind.

What I mean by 'necessity' is more like - Is there something we
MUST be
doing or something that MUST be done. Is there some really
important goal
or can we take our progress at a leisurely pace? Is there some
horrible
punishment for failure? I don't mean on a personal level - I
fully
understand that we are all our own judges in the after-death
'weighing of
the heart' and give ourselves our own subjective devachanic
Heaven or Hell.


DALLAS:  As mind-beings we set our own pace always.  Nature goes
on at a pace that we have yet to fully understand.  Part of our
living (assuming that we are immortals and that the School of
experience will cover many, many incarnations) is learning to
determine what is essential and what is not.  Maslow developed a
catalogue of "wants" and "needs".  The Perceiver within is also
the Discriminator and is subtly aware of the rule of necessity.
The "Voice of Conscience" is an illustration of this.  It comes
from "within" it is a warning "voice" that in effect says: "You
did that before and got hurt.  Why do it again ?"  Very often we
discard that warning, but, it is always there.  Theosophy says
that it is our HIGHER SELF (the Perceiver and Discriminator)
which warns us (the embodied mind).  It is the Real man, the
inner Immortal.  It speaks at such moments to the man of embodied
mind and physical action and experience.



>11.	The "Dreamspell" of the Mayas is an illustration of the
>present mind-desire linkage.  It produces selfishness.  When we
>see the alternative, we make the effort to break the "spell."
>Necessity is the pathway that leads on in our own evolution.  We
>begin to "widen out to the Universal."

Just out of interest the Mayans beleive the Dreamspell will end
for
collective humanity (this race) on December 22 2012. At least
their
cyclical calendar ends on this date - and it's start date was
interestingly
enough the day Adonis D ploughed into Atlantis sinking it beneath
the waves.


Dallas:		Is there a date for that.

According to ancient Egyptian records the sinking of the last
Atlantis island Poseidonis was in 9,566 BC  SD II 406 444fn, Isis
I 589-594,  "The Deluge of Deucalion".
I am curious to know when the Mayan calendar began.

If you have the SECRET DOCTRINE look up in Vol II pp 68-70 for
the chronology of the ancient Hindus.





>14.	A STRANGE STORY is a marvelous example ....<SNIP>...g.  As
to Jung's
"making contact with the
>animus" - it has two meanings apparently:  1.) animating or
>actuating spirit, and 2.) a feeling or spirit of hostility or
>hatred and animosity.  The first seems neutral enough, as our
>motive lend it coloring, morally.  The second in on the "Dark
>Side" as I suggested.  But that needs to be defined, each for
>himself.  Jung devised special words to serve as short-cuts in
>conveying ideas.  Theosophy does the same, but it also
simplifies
>and tries to make relations clear when conveying concepts.  Why
>need the "dark side" be encouraged?  Who created it?  If we can
>determine that we will know what to do.

I don't think 'anyone' created a dark side. it just is. And by
contacting
ones inner darkside I don't mean encouraging it - more like a
facing all of
ones deepest fears...




Dallas:  You are right in that.  The "personality" which dies
eventually for all of us fears.  The Individuality, the Real Man,
is an immortal and for it there is no fear.

=====================================================

>15.	Bardo needs adjustment with the Theosophical concepts.  KEY
>TO THEOSOPHY on after-death states ought to be used.

Look I have a problem with that personally as I've stated before.
The KEY
seems to be very simplistic (almost like What Dreams May
Come???). The
Bardo is in fact very scientific. When one actually experiences
Wave
Vibration reality or the elements 'collapsing or withdrawing'
into one
another the Bardo's meanings become lucid. To me devachan is just
one small
part of the Bardo's - as I've said before the 'Hallucinatory
Theatre'. (is
SOMA mortomimetic? can we recreate the death process for
ourselves, a sort
of trial run? )


DALLAS  Admittedly the description of the Devachanic experience
in the KEY is simple.  Remember that it was a novel idea for the
time it was presented and had to be shown to be reasonably in
line with karma and life.  The details are covered in other
articles and are quite extensive.  Since I am not familiar with
all the ramifications of the BARDO I cannot at this moment make
comments on them, and compare them with what I have learned from
Theosophical doctrines.  I imagine that there is a concordance,
but would have to go into it to find out.

=======================================

>Best wishes to you,		Dal

And to you as always,

Darren

"devil inside, devil inside, every single one of us...the devil
inside" - INXS

DALLAS:

In Theosophy the only "devil" is our willful desire to disregard
the laws of nature.  However that is silly as Nature is
all-powerful, as well as just and compassionate.  We could not
live for an instant without the entire cooperation of Nature in
her most minute parts.  The real enemy of man is his unbridled
desire and passionate inner nature.







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