Theos-Talk Archives (January 1999 Message tt00041)

"Be humble if thou wouldst attain to Wisdom.
Be humbler still, when Wisdom thou has mastered.
Be like the Ocean which receives all streams and rivers.
The Ocean’s mighty calm remains unmoved;
It feels them not …
The way to final freedom is within the SELF."
                                        The Voice of the Silence

Leon,

Thanks for your response.
I take your post the way that comes out of your keyboard.

Dallas, you see, the ‘rooting out’ was not bad rhetoric by Leon, but a fact that
took place. We are all humans. And things like that happens in every
organization.

Leon, I see you as a sincere person with lots of unconscious anger (probably
towards Besant, CWL, AAB, and others). One, whose anger has turned into
resentments which has turned into a neuroses.
A person whose mind, as a normal process, generated a defense mechanism by
making up a ‘Dugpa’ conspiracy theory. And now with the added mission ? evoking
the Hero or World Savior  Archetype- to ‘uproot’ from ULT  and attack in this
list anyone who does not conform to your own expectation of what theosophy or the
Theosophical Society should be.

That is my naked opinion. Influence by nobody but your writings. And yes this is
the karma I got by reading your  comments.

For me Theosophy is beyond HPB, WQJ, etc.;  since Theosophy is much older than
those wonderful individuals;  and Theosophy, like Life is larger than the books
we read and treasure.

Besides HPB, and the M. L. , I study AB, CWL, Tingley (her book: Theosophy: The
Path of the Mystic is one of my dearest one) , GDP, and others,  I  read AAB if I
please to do so without any guilt, and without fear. And I have found something
good and useful in all. And … I have nothing to hide about it.

If people choose to follow Theosophy according to the vision of Besant, Judge,
Crosbie or any other way, so be it. We do not need judges to dispense judgment
about it.
I see the same type of individuals, no better no worse in all 3 theosophical
organizations, or in Meditation Mountain in Ojai, and with the same
philosophical, artistic, scientific, religious, and mystical needs and quests.
Each of them will find a way to express their soul-call, whether in a study
group, in a music school, in LCC, in hatha yoga, bakti yoga,  un-yoga or with the
guru of their choice like shuchabanana or another. It does not matter. They all
good,  unless they cause misery and suffering to others, unless they go about
their life insulting other groups similar to his/her. I have been called Mara by
some Hare Krishnas and Satan by some Christians and probably Dugpa by you now. It
is the same thing, it is the same fanaticism, it is the same person(ality).

The enemy are not those people in search of Divine-Wisdom in any form, but is
always within. In me and in you. The heresies are the same. Krishnamurti gives a
lot of inside in this.

But I would like to see the evidence since you invited me to see you.
I live in sunny Los Angeles, and you? But it should be more than "saw someone
inviting someone to a church meeting, or to a home to read AAB, and so on."

Now tell me this:
Has WQJ, or Mr. Crosbie ever said that Besant was being used by the Dugpa? If
yes, where? This is only for more theosophical history knowledge which you seem
to have a lot.
================================================
Changing the subject to a more constructive note:
================================================
On the other hand,
the reason I dwell on this is other than to attack Leon; but a more profound
quest on the practical aspects of Theosophy.

I strongly believe that Theosophy offers a set of tools, and teachings that
empowers the person to work out psychological traumas, complexes, neuroses, and
any other barrier (like defense mechanisms) that keeps us from realizing higher
state of consciousness.

Dallas in couple posts has written about this (which I misplaced due to the
enormous amount of emails). And I plan to follow up with comments and suggestions
to be used in our daily life. After reading Plato, I believe that friendship and
brotherhood means to share the best in us. What works and what does not work in
creating understanding.

But on the other hand, if Theosophy does not offer any practical side dealing
with our conscious or unconscious make up (but a set of theoretical facts about
the Kosmos we lived in) , then people has no other option but to look for that
help in modern psychologists (like Freudians, Jungian, and many other bright
individuals like Ken Wilber, etc) or exoteric religious practices.

I would like to see discussions on these tools and techniques that Theosophy
offers to fulfill our destiny, like in the quote from the Voice: "Be like the
Ocean which receives all streams and rivers. The Ocean’s mighty calm remains
unmoved…"
============================================================================
Sorry if I insulted any of you, besides Leon, who insulted me. (yeah, yeah, I
know, I'm very human, with a big personality, but I'm like that at home, at work,
and at the Spanish Lodge where I am the President (yes, yeah, yeah, I know what
you are going to say about that too, so save your words) , and trying to improve
a bit daily.

I also hope that near future generation of theosophists may go beyond the "Dugpas
conspiracies" and accept every theosophist 's choices of sources of inspiration
and study without a frontal brutal attack.


With great hope in Theosophy at the reach of all,
Martin Leiderman
in the sunny part of West Los Angeles