Theos-Talk Archives (November 1998 Message tt00449)

Nov 25th 1998

Thanks Jerry -- again I would say that we mostly agree.  But s I notice we
employ different words -- which is not unusual.

I want to correct something I wrote a few days ago.  I said that while I was
not a "Buddhist" I had studied what the Buddha taught and respected it.


What I meant was that I was not a Buddhist in the formal sense, although
when a youth I took the vows at meetings of the MAHA-BODHI SOCIETY which I
found very illuminating -- in Bombay.  I am a follower of the Buddha by
conviction, and have not adopted any one of the several schools of Buddhism,
as I read and study them all.

Hence my views may appear heterodox to some.  Look for instance at the work
of Olcott who labored greatly to bring back a unity among the several great
schools of Buddhism that had emerged.  and he was successful -- his BUDDHIST
CATECHISM is a valuable book.

Dal
    From: Jerry Schueler
    Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 5:53 AM
 Subject: Responses to Dallas

    [DALLAS ]   OK Jerry:  you are right that most visualize eternity as
"time ticking away."  But as we know that "time" is relative to the
perceiver, there is somewhere an ultimate reality.  I do not know where that
is or how it is measured.  So, being ignorant, I set the equation unsolved
in my mental note-book, and let it rest there, while seeking for an answer.

    Its not so hard to conceive. Just think of what it would be like if time
suddenly stopped.



    [DALLAS ]   Just so. -- unutterable confusion.  But that is not so at
this level of our understanding, as we can see.



    In one place I read that Karma can be perceived in action only by Those
who know the "ultimate divisions of time."  I puzzled over this phrase for
long and have reached no conclusion.  But since the claim is made there
seems to be a reason for it.

    Karma exists only in time. The word means action, and action implies
movement
    in space-time. Outside of time (i.e., eternity) is therefore karma-less.

    Dallas:
    EVEN WHAT WE CALL "ETERNITY" IS LIMITED IN OUR MINDS TO THE OPENING AND
CLOSING OF A KALPA -- OR "LIFE OF BRAHMA" SOME 311 TRILLION AND 40 BILLION
OF YEARS.

    BUT I JUST QUOTED YESTERDAY HPB's VIEW AS AN 'OCCULTIST' ON THE
CONTINUANCE OF KARMA BEFORE AND AFTER SUCH AN EVENT.

    SUPPOSE THAT OUR UNIVERSE IS BUT AN ATOM IN AN INCONCEIVABLY LARGE
UNIVERSE -- WOULD NOT OUR CONCEPT OF TIME BE INFINITESIMAL IN SUCH A CASE TO
THOSE WHO THINK THAT THAT IS "REALITY" ?

    WHAT IS "TIME" LIKE -- OR MEASURED -- ON ENTITIES WHO LIVE ON ONE OF OUR
"ATOMS ?"



    Is it that there are Those who in this set of conditions have indeed
transcended our notions of time and its divisions ?

    Where does time really exist but in our own minds. Inside us we have a
    sense of time. All movement including growth implies time of some kind.
    But in meditation we can experience time-less-ness. Even in sleep we
have motion, and thus time, but time there goes faster or slower than   it
does in the waking state, which is largely based on the motion of the Sun
    going around the Earth. It is not so much that we have to transcend
time, but
    rather our own inner sense of time which includes all motion or doing
or sense of becoming.


    [DALLAS ]  THERE ARE DIFFERENT VIEWS ABOUT "MEDIATION."  HOW WOULD YOU
DEFINE YOURS ?  to ME IT IS VERY DEEP THINKING ON A SUBJECT WITH A VIEW TO
RELATE IT TO OTHER FACTS THAT ARE GRASPED .



     Another thing that troubles me is the concept that some of us want to
"stop the World, I want to get off."  Personally I cannot conceive that such
a step would make for any great happiness or benefit.

    Agreed. Although this is the goal of most of the great world's
religions.
    The happiness that comes from escaping samsara is temporary.


    I know that the Buddha said that by doing that one secured relief from
"Sorrow."  That is quite true, as I understand his reasons.  But that falls
in with the idea of Karma -- and the idea that we can secure a release from
"sorrow," by canceling or balancing any causes that we may have generated so
as to cause OUR sorrow.

    He taught the Middle Way. This way is not easy to define, but basically
    it means transcending both sorrow and happiness and all other dualities
    as well. It is not a balance so much as a trancendence of extremes.



    [DALLAS ]   QUITE TRUE -- BUT HOW IS THIS DONE PRACTICALLY ?



    If we are able to do that we can go into "Atyantika Pralaya" as
described by HPB in SD I p. 371 top.  The Jivanmukta or Nirvanee enters a
personal state that is oblivion for an enormous period until the next Maha
manvantara requires its re-emergence into manifestation.  I ask my self what
is gained by such isolation and I then think of the description of the
PRATYEKHA BUDDHA given at the end of the "TWO PATHS"  -- "VOICE OF THE
SILENCE" p. 47 fn (in my book) and, the description of the DHARMAKAYA  (p.
77-8 footnote in VOICE ).

    Agreed. Theosophy taks the path of the bodhisattva.

    Jerry S.