Theos-Talk Archives (November 1998 Message tt00403)

I agree that we must start with what we know, but how can we trust what we
know. In one epiphany the realization I was given was thtat one cannot
determine the difference in 'reality' and a vivid dream of reality. Maya
confuses this issue more. Do I really exist? Or am I figment of the
universes dreaming imagination? I understand your position Dallas, and
agree that by accepting it , one would remain relatively Sane - which must
be a good thing.

Darren


At 11:41 AM 11/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Nov 20th
>
>As to axioms:
>
>Dallas offers:
>
>
>Why not try three facts:
>
>1. You exist.
>
>2. The Universe, World, environment, etc... taken as a whole --
>exists.
>
>3.	There is a constant inter-relationship between "You" and all
>the rest.
>
>
>These three cannot be done away with so far as our current
>perceptions go.
>
>
>
>If you want a few more, or some applications and reasonings:
>
>
>1. The UNIVERSE is unmeasurable (by us) whether in distance or
>size, movement or vibration or rest, time, or duration.  From the
>sub-atom to the largest conceivable or seeable distance all the
>many UNIVERSES so far distinguished all appear to be similar in
>structure and movement and being.  This could be considered as a
>WHOLE, as a UNITY , as the manifestation in objectivity of some
>CASUAL factor.  What this ultimate CAUSAL factor may be is so far
>undiscoverable (to us).  Scientist and we may theorize about it,
>basing ourselves on its many manifestations.
>
>2. It is evident that there are laws that run interior to all
>beings and serve to give them their shape and their existence.
>It is an invisible and so far an un-cataloged area of our
>situation.  Many rules and laws concerning mathematics, physics,
>chemistry, astronomy, biology etc. have been studied and noted.
>But the important fact is that every one of these is innate,
>inherent in the beings who live in and with those laws.  Further,
>all the many laws make with each other a dynamic harmony.  The
>differences and changes are all smoothly adjusted in time.
>Nature working through Karma does this.
>
>3. The universe is cooperative and no being exists without the
>assistance of innumerable other beings who cooperate in forming
>it and keeping it alive.  The period of time for any one being to
>live is not known, nor can death be foreseen (except in some very
>rare cases on record).  And yet it is again Nature, working
>through Karma that does this.
>
>4. It appears that "evolution" in terms of experience and
>intelligence is a common bond we all share in.  When it began,
>where it will end, what our ultimate purpose in participation is
>in rarely known at present to most of the people.  Hence theories
>of life and living have resulted in religions.  One may see in
>this the Hermetic concept of "a stone becomes a plant, a plant-an
>animal, an animal - a man, and a man - a god."  There is a
>constant growth over million of years of individual intelligence
>and sensitivity.  Starting with the "Life-atom" the "immortal
>pilgrim" (the Monad - ATMA-BUDDHI) becomes the WISE MAHATMA and a
>DHYANI.  WE ought to adopt and intellectually apply the concept
>that we are at core IMMORTALS.
>
>5. The fact that prophets, sages, wise men in the past and the
>present exist seems to demonstrate that one of the purposes of
>human development is ethical and moral.  To make this clearer the
>Laws of living are deemed to be cooperative.  Hence brotherhood
>is said to be the practice of a knowledge of the general laws
>that rule all Nature and all men.  Those that are truly wise are
>generous, altruistic, sharing, impersonal and universal in their
>efforts to assist those who are leaning to attain to their level
>and stature.  This ought to be our goal as a human Mind.
>
>6. Some interior confusion arises in most when considering this,
>as the sense of "I-ness" is very strong.  It inheres in our
>present "personality" (the "mask" of this lifetime).  But if we
>consider that our innate sense of right and wrong is an
>indication of a Soul (or Spiritual) quality, then the extension
>of this makes abiding by the Laws of Nature ( Karma) "right," and
>the breaking, or obstructing of those Natural laws, "wrong."  --
>And that, for me settles all this question of the relation
>between personal ethics and the law of karma.  Ethics is the law
>of Karma as it operates in the human kingdom.
>
>
>So if we adopt (for consideration) the 3 axioms as above, and
>think them over and consider the rest of our situation, we will
>probably find that they are self-explanatory, and are in fact
>"details."
>
>It is like the story of the businessman in a hurry who, 2,000
>years ago, ran up to Hillel and said:  "Can you tell me what is
>the essence of religion, briefly, while I stand on one leg?"
>Hillel looked at him quietly and said:  " Do unto others as you
>would have them do to you.  All the rest is detail."
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Dallas
>
>From: D. Porter
>Sent:	Thursday, November 19, 1998 5:23 PM
>Subject: Re: Re: axioms vs subjective views
>
>Weel, actually I was trying to find an 'axiom' that we could all
>agree on
>as a starting point for further extrapolation. But now I'm just
>confused.
>
>Darren
>
>
>At 08:13 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>>All things that exist, all animals, all humans, the earth, the
>elements,
>>>the cosmos, the unseen - all are one.
>>>
>>>This is not my subjective view but an axiom.
>>>
>>>Agreed or Not Agreed?
>>>
>>>Darren
>>
>>What sort of oneness do you mean?  We all breath the same air
>etc. so
>>because we share a common environment -- we are one?  Or we all
>came from a
>>common source, thus are one at the root?  Or we all are the same
>>substance and thus one?  Or we are varied conditions of that
>same shared
>>substance?  Or we have one soul, but different forms?  Or some
>>combination of these possibilities -- or some other one?
>>
>>--
>><> Nicholas Weeks <> am455@lafn.org <> Los Angeles
>>  When hearing, pondering and practicing the Dharma, one's aim
>should be
>>  first of all to subdue one's own mind.   Gyelwa Ensapa
>>
>>
>
>
>
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