Theos-Talk Archives (November 1998 Message tt00178)

>Some personal responses to Frank:
>
>
>>I trust in karman. Otherwise karman would be unjust.
>
>Just and unjust exist only in your own mind. Why are you using
>G de P's outdated use of the final n?


Because all concepts the Ancient Wisdom has is outdated. I love outdated and
old things.

>>We have no grace in theosophy.
>
>Speak for yourself. I have found grace in it.


How bad for you. Seems a misconception.

>>There is no escape from that what we have done.

>I guess you never heard of jivamukti and jivamukta.
>What do you think the term "liberation" means?
>What do you think "karmaless" means?
>You may like the idea of incarnating forever, but I don't.


Congratulation to you. I am not so advanced than you. Even the Gautama
Buddha has to reinkarnate, also the globes and planets. You you really think
the jivamukti are free from karman? Even the Master have their karman. Never
wrote the Mahatma letters? I sense the Pasadena TS also sells the ML...

>
>> Every sage taught this.
>
>Where do you get this crap? Have you read the works of every sage
>throughout history? I don't think so.


Just read the Secret Doctrine or the Christian Bible. That helps a little
bit.

>> When (sic) must pay back every penny.
>
>This is a callous, brutal, and vicious doctrine that I abhor. It
>turns off a lot of good people, and rightly so. Your notion of
>karma is equivalent to hell for me. I don't buy it. God is Love.
>Where in the hell is forgiveness in your wild interpretation
>of Theosophy?


Interesting to hear that the Pasadena doesn't teaches the universal karma
law. I assume you are aware what Pasadena teaches, since you described
yourself as a member for over 30 years and being taught by Mr. Long himself.
What is the hell for someone is the paradise for another.

>> Do you really think you can to bad things, have bad thoughts
>>and bad motivations and next life you are starting
>>in better circumstances with good motives and good thoughts. Never.
>
>How do you know? Do you remember your past lives?
>I am sorry to be plain rude here, Frank, but you are worse than
>a fundamentalist Christian missionary crusading for repentance
>with threats of eternal damnation. I left Chrisitianity years ago for
>a kinder and gentler doctrine. You obviously have not. When I was
>a child, a believed that God wrote down all my sins and merits
>in a book to keep records so that he could properly judge me when
>I died. I outgrew that childish idea. You have not, but merely changed
>the names around. I am not impressed by your threats, any more than
>I am impressed by those of Christian missionaries. Moses taught
>an eye for an eye. Jesus taught forgiveness. I side with Jesus.


Mmmmhhh. Did Jesus taught another karmic law than the Ancient Wisdom has? I
deny.

>> Then the
>>cosmos would be nothing else than a great joke or parody.
>
>Well, actually the great Zen master, D T Zazuki once called
>it the Ultimate Joke. I believe that the cosmos is our expression,
>our creation, and our chance for adventure. Nothing more.


What a poppycock and beat into the face of the eminent Suzuki. As a Pasadena
member you may aware of the fact that Suzuki had close connection with the
teachers in Point Loma.
>
>>You can only start
>>were you have ended. Every theosophical teacher said this. It is not only
>>most logically but gives us also hope.
>
>A treadmill going on endlessly is not my idea of hope.
>Where you start and end, my Theosophical friend, is anywhere you
>think you start and end. Nothing is good or bad, but thinking
>makes it so (Shakespeare was a real theosophist).
>
>Jerry S.
>
>Sorry to be rude, and harsh. Nothing at all personal, but I have to
>call em as I sees em. I can love you, Frank, while hating your
>ideas. I left Christianity for Theosophy because I thought it
>taught love and compassion. You seem to have a very
>Christian fundamentalist approach to Theosophy, that I for one
>cannot abide. Your eye-for-an-eye approach is not how I
>see Theosophy, nor how I see reincarnation and karma.
>If you are right, then God help us all.
>
Wrong, in opposition I never had closer relation to Christianity. But I have
read in Mr. Long's circulars and in his book that he refers often to Jesus
and Christianity.

Frank