Theos-Talk Archives (October 1998 Message tt00086)

Oct 23rd 1998

Dear Eldon:

Thank you - this is valuable.

May I ask some questions interjected here and there in the text
of your article ?

Dallas

=====================================

> From: Eldon B Tucker
> Sent:	Thursday, October 22, 1998 9:17 PM
> Subject: stray comments on reincarnation

A number of points regarding the theosophical view of
reincarnation have appeared in the current discussion.
Following is my stray list of ideas -- something quickly
written in the hope of perhaps adding another idea or
two to those now circulating.

* The current method and timing of reincarnation is
  specific to the current forms, personalities, and
  evolutionary status of humanity.


THE MORAL QUALITY OF OUR LIFE HAS A LOT TO SAY IN REGULATING THE
TIME WE SPEND IN "AFTER-DEATH" STATES.  In THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY
starting p 99 on to page 116 covers most of the important
statements that Theosophy offers on this period.  KARMA rules all
these things.



* Being in the Kali Yuga, a time period of intense
  happenings, we tend to reincarnate more often, seeking
  more frequent rebirth to take advantage of the opportunity
  for growth. This increases the apparent world population,
  as more people are in body at any one time.


AS WE ARE IMMORTALS THE QUESTION OF TIME HAS ONLY RELEVANCE TO
OUR PRESENT LIVES.
The "after-death" states are "effect-states."  The amount of time
spent in them depends on our lives now.  If there is a reference
that speaks of accelerated incarnations for the average person I
would be glad to see it.



* In earlier races, humanity was quasi-astral, and had
  different methods of reproduction. The same may be
  true of distant future races of humanity. How things
  currently work is not necessarily indicative of how
  things may be.

* Highly advanced humans -- chelas and Mahatmas -- do
  not have the same need of devachan and other after-death
  states as we do, so their time between births is much
  shorter.

* In the case of accidents, suicide, bad karma resulting
  in insane or other problems preventing a normal life,
  the after-death states may be greatly shortened, or
  practically non-existent.

* In some cases, an chela may assume the body of a young
  child that has just died, and assume that outer personality,
  growing up and living a life in that child's body, which
  would have otherwise when the child departed it.


THIS IS SAID TO BE RARE - THE ONE CASE WE ARE GIVEN DETAILS ON IS
THAT OF Mr. JUDGE WHO USED A "BORROWED Body"  It is a special
case and was done for special reasons which he narrates.  The
account is given starting on p. 249 in the ULT edition of LETTERS
THAT HAVE HELPED ME.



* Although Mahatmas may be able to skip devachan between
  lifetimes, they still have need of a deep, special time
  of quietude, dwelling deep within, as described in THE
  MAHATMA LETTERS.


THE MAHATMA IS QUITE BEYOND THE NEED FOR DEVACHAN AS HE ADJUSTS
KARMA ALL THE TIME AS HE LIVES AND NEVER TRANSGRESSES THE LAWS OF
KARMA.  HE HAS NO NEED FOR "REST" AND "MEDITATION."  The
philosophy of theosophy explains this clearly.  [ KEY p. 148,
Transaction p. 18,  HPB Articles Vol II pp. 199-205, HPB - THE
MYSTERIES OF AFTER LIFE Lucifer January 1889;  WQJ Articles Vol.
2 pp. 371-378, REWARD FOR UNMERITED SUFFERINGS, Path March 1891;
and DEVACHAN, Path, September 1890   Ocean pp. 112-3


* There is mention of a ratio of 1-to-100 regarding years
  of earth life and the time in the after-death. The number
  "100" could refer to many things. One is 10 x 10 states
  or classes of other-world experience, each having it's
  own sort of "time", disassociated with our normal sense
  of the passage of time on this, our Globe D physical earth.


I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS SUCH A RATIO BEING MENTIONED.  COULD A
REFERENCE BE GIVEN PLEASE ?





* Our state of awareness, which in embodied existence, is
  especially lucid, a rare gift, where in we can achieve
  considerable advancement, if we perfect our minds and
  spiritual natures. In after-death states, we are in a
  subjective state where no new progress, nor karma, is made,
  except in the passive sense of working out energies in our
  personal natures that were set in motion during embodied life.


* Our exceptional lucidity, which embodied, derives from the
  COMPOSITE nature of our being. Different Monads or beings
  come together to form the complete human, including a
  demigod acting as our Higher Self, a Manasaputra; ourselves
  as the essentially-human nature; an animal Monad acting as
  our animal/human nature; and yet other parts. In sleep and
  in death each part goes to its own realm, with US, the human,
  gravitating to devachan; the God going to our parent star;
  the Spirit going to its own home; and so forth. We are
  MORE THAN OURSELVES, while alive, because of this union
  of conscious, with various parts of us drawn from the various
  kingdoms. There are many mysteries associated with this.


THIS SOUNDS LIKE A COMPOUND OF A NUMBER OF TEACHINGS.  Perhaps
the most complete explanation of this during the sleeping state
is in TRANSACTIONS  pp 66 to 76 - where it is shown that the
"embodied mind" (Kama-manas) catches glimpses occasionally of the
indwelling HIGHER SELF - the Manasaputra within.

As I recall the "Parent Star" is referred to in the SD, Vol. 1 p.
572-3.




* No one makes us come back into incarnation. It's just
  something that naturally happens. We are drawn to concrete
  existence, to reestablish the lucidity of composite
  existence. Our essential nature, a human Monad, a mind-being,
  becomes like one atom join several others to form something
  bigger than any of them -- a molecule.



* Apart from our physical world, there are associated with
  our earth other places where we could possibly exist, being
  fully-incarnate, having all seven principles of consciousness
  including what corresponds to a physical body, on different
  and higher planes. These are called "the globes of the
  earth planetary chain," with the physical world as we know
  it being one of them.


While this may be true, the essential thing to grasp is that
there is ONE CONSCIOUSNESS.  It pierces up and down the seven
planes of being and serves to uphold the memory of all the varied
experiences on the several planes that it contacts.  We are that
ONE
CONSCIOUSNESS



* Subjective states, like our typical after-death states, are
  had in "spheres of effects," located "between" these globes,
  which are called "spheres of causes," the places where we
  make karma and are fully functional beings. All but the highest
  of us are born on this earth, Globe D, have a period of rest
  in the following sphere of effects, going through kamaloka
  and devachan there, then find ourselves immediately reborn
  on Globe D again. The Mahatmas and some chelas may find rebirth
  on the other globes.


I AGREE IN GENERAL WITH THIS, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A
REFERENCE TO A STATEMENT MADE THAT THE "Mahatmas and Chelas may
find rebirth of the other globes.

I ask this because Karma demands that all bonds be first
harmonized on any plane or globe before proceeding to others -
that is as I understand it.




... no more time for further stray thoughts ...

-- Eldon


,MANY THANKS ELDON.  THIS IS VERY HELPFUL - BUT I WOULD LIKE TO
HAVE THOSE REFERENCES IF POSSIBLE.

Dal.