Theos-Talk Archives (September 1998 Message tt00227)

Sept 17th 1998

Dear Jerry:

	Re:  LIPIKA

Since we are studying Theosophy and doing this on the basis of
the doctrines that are available, I wanted to know if you had a
basis for your statement that the Lipika were related solely (as
I think you put it ) to Globe D.  I can find no such restriction
made by HPB, and as far as I know she is the one who introduced
the subject and gave the information.

As far as I am concerned, I "go by the book" and when I make a
statement I try to have a "back-up" in the literature to refer
to.  I had hoped that you had found something I had not yet
found.  I need corroboration, if available please.

> From: Jerry Schueler
> Sent:	Wednesday, September 16, 1998 1:39 PM
> Subject: Re: RE: HPB on the arrangement of SD MSS

> DALLAS I have looked for a reference that says they are as you
>state.  Could not find.  Can you help please ?

===============================================

You will just have to trust me.

===========================================

> Even if "Errors" may be "subjective"  ( and I maintain that all
>is subjective, since all evaluation of any phenomena "objective"
>has to be subjective and interior to us )


If karma is subjective, as you say here, then the whole idea
of justice is whatever we want it to be. On the other hand,
if karma is purely objective then it will be impossible to
ever end it.


	Re:	KARMA

Apparently we use the terms "objective"  (this plane's matter and
forms) and "subjective"  ( what we internalize as ideas,
knowledge and desires, hopes, memory, etc...in different ways

Of course Karma as the Great Law, as an aspect of the ABSOLUTE is
endless.  How else would manvantara follow pralaya, or
reincarnation occur?

If the results of our thoughts, feelings and deeds ever get
balanced in Nature and with the billions of Monads that they
constantly affect  it, surely, can only be because those causes
that we generate are consciously made more noble, less selfish,
and brotherhood and generosity are made to prevail. - or so I
believe that Theosophy teaches - at least that is what I get out
of HPB in THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY.

===================================================

The Lipika record events, thoughts, feelings, and so on. We
can raise our consciousness to their records and read them
ourselves. But the "we" is not the ego, which is on the mental
plane, but the Reincarnating Ego, which is on the causal
plane with the Lipika.


	DALLAS

That seems to make sense to me too, as the Lower manas ( your
"ego" ?) does not have access to the Akasic plane, where the
Lipika function
[ these are the references in SD that I have been looking at:
SD I 31-2, 127-9, 103-7, 130, 294fn, ]

================================================

>It is then the
>"objective plane" that is an illusion, as suggested in VOICE OF
>THE SILENCE - p. 9 on MARA. )
>What does it matter ?  I don't "get it."

All "planes" are objective. We are subjective selves who
experience
objective experiences on them. Subjectivity and objectivity must
always go together--you can't have one without the other.


	Re: CONSCIOUSNESS

I have heard it said that one can be "on a plane" but "in a
state."  This implies to me that the CONSCIOUSNESS is unaffected
and is in fact the Witness, the Experiencer and passes through
those states and conditions.  And this seems to me, to indicate
the condition of the HIGHER SELF or Atma-Buddhi with the Higher
Manas linked to it, as HPB states in KEY and in TRANSACTIONS (pp.
66-77)

===============================================

> Who or What is the "WE" that does the interpretation, in terms
>of our Principles ?  I am trying to understand your terms.

================================

The "we" is our ego or personality. Our ego or human mind is
pretty much confined to the mental plane, from which it gets its
name. When consciousness rises to higher planes, it has to
act through another "body" and it takes on another sense of
identity.

======================================

	DALLAS

As I say above, how can the "Consciousness" change ?  Or do you
mean perhaps that the ONE WITNESS which is internal to us - our
TRUE EGO - THE HIGHER MANAS has many experiences on several
planes.  Then going back to the difference between "objective"
and "subjective" there has to be something that unites them and
is not involved.  Or, am I wrong in this surmise ?
			Thanks,  Dal
=================================================

Jerry S.