Theos-Talk Archives (June 1998 Message tt00108)

June 4th 1998

Reminiscence concerning the manuscript for SD Vol. 3 and 4.

Dear Daniel:

I was careful in what I said.  It is a reminiscence, and also,
being nearly 60 years old, is therefore even in my mind, subject
to inaccuracies of memory as I said.  Had I been able to refine
it further I would have done so.

You are quite correct in quoting the material for which you have
reports, dates, etc.  I am also aware of the conflicts involved
and the resulting surmises as to accuracy.  I am sorry indeed
that I cannot lay any of those surmises at rest, and, perhaps I
ought not to have mentioned what I heard, inasmuch as I have
nothing but memory to go on.  The information came to me as I
said at least "second hand."  At the time I had no reason to
doubt it.

Yours as always,        Dallas

> Date: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 8:51 PM
> From: "Daniel H Caldwell" <blafoun@azstarnet.com>
> Subject: Re: More About SD Vol. 3

>Dallas wrote
>
>>I was given to
>> understand, many years ago by an old student of HPB, that very
>> shortly before her death, she called in Archibald Keightley
and
>> G.R.S.Mead and asked where the manuscripts for the 3rd and 4th
>> Volumes were.  They showed her a large pile all typed and
ready.
>> She then said that she had received "instructions" to have
them
>> destroyed. They all three set to work and tore them up. This
is a
>> reminiscence, and I have not been able to secure independent
>> verification of this statement made to me.
>
>Dallas,
>
>"Shortly before her death"??  Are we talking
>about a few days or a few weeks at the most?
>
>Archibald Keightley left England in October,
>(sometime after Oct. 10th) 1890 and did NOT
>return to England till after HPB died.
>See THE PATH, Dec. 1890, p. 295 where
>Claude Falls Wright in his "London Letter"
>writes:  "Dr. Keightley leaves us in a few
>days for New Zealand. . . ."  This document
>is dated Oct. 1890. Also see other issues of
>THE PATH, first six months of 1891.
>
>
>Then in another "London Letter" dated
>January 7, 1891, Claude Wright writes:
>"H.P.B. has WITHIN THE LAST WEEK OR SO
>begun to get together the M.S.S. (long
>ago written) for the third volume of the
>SECRET DOCTRINE; it will, however, take
>a good twelve months to prepare for
>publication."
>
>>From the above we see that more than
>2 months after A. Keightley had left
>English soil, Claude Wright reports
>that H.P.B. was working on the
>3rd volume MSS.  H.P.B. lived 4 more
>months after this report.
>
>In light of the above how could Archibald
>have been involved in the alleged
>destruction of the SD III MSS "shortly
>before HPB's death"?!
>
>Basil Crump (close friend and associate
>of Alice Cleather) wrote in the April, 1939
>issue of THE CANADIAN THEOSOPHIST about
>an "elderly gentleman. . . who knew Mr.
>Thomas Green, . . . [Green had] helped with the
>printing at the H.P.B. Press in London. . . .
>Before he died Mr. Green told this gentleman. . .
>that he. . . was paid to set up the type
>of vol. III and part of Vol. IV of THE SECRET
>DOCTRINE.  The proofs of vol. III were
>passed by H.P.B. shortly before her death
>and Mr. Green was just going to press with them
>when he received orders from her to break up the
>type. . . .That she gave orders for the type
>to be broken up makes it practically
>certain that she also destroyed the MSS. . . ."
>
>In the May, 1939 issue of the same magazine,
>James Pryse (well-know theosophist of the
>early days who lived at London Headquarters
>during the last 8 or 9 months of HPB's life)
>demolishs this "story".  Mr. Pryse was the printer
>who had come from New York to help HPB and her
>group in setting up the H.P.B. Press in London.
>
>Pryse writes:
>"Mr. Green was not a printer, did not learn to
>set type. . . . He had no part in the management,
>and never handled any 'copy' as that was always
>given to me as manager.  He had nothing to do
>with the printing until I took him in as my
>assistant when the printing plant was enlarged,
>quite a while AFTER H.P.B. discarded her wornout
>body. . . ."  Pryse gives other good reasons
>for discounting the story of the anonymous
>"elderly gentleman" who related this story
>about Thomas Green to Basil Crump and his
>associates.
>
>This "story" may be related to your
>"story".  The time period 1939 is close to
>your estimate 1937-1939.
>
>Dallas, I find it somewhat strange that in commenting
>on the testimonies of Annie Besant, Archibald
>Keightley and G.R.S. Mead that I quoted in a
>previous post, you repeatedly wrote:
>
>"A blank---a surmise situation---conflict in
>views."
>
>Taking such a "skeptical" point of view one
>could dismiss most of the positive testimony concerning
>HPB's life.  And many "skeptics" do!
>
>Please, Dallas, read my paper on the origin
>and authenticity of Vol. III at
>http://www.azstarnet.com/~blafoun/sdiiimyt.htm
>
>The quoted testimony of Besant, A. Keightley and
>Mead conform to what other eyewitnesses said at the
>same time.  Read my timeline and look for
>Ariadne's thread.  *It is there* from 1885 through
>1897.
>
>Again I invite you to compare the contents of the
>Wurzburg MSS with the contents of Vol. III (of course
>excluding the esoteric papers).  Again read what Bertram
>Keightley said about the original Volume I (1886) becoming
>Volume III (1887).  This is confirmed by Archibald
>Keightley and HPB herself.
>
>Toward the end of my paper, I deal with the
>"conflicting views" issue.  Please see that section
>for relevant remarks.
>
>Daniel Caldwell
>
>